DPF Retrofit: Should You Use VW 50700 Now?

Hello!

To begin with: Yes, oils have been discussed extensively before. However, I can't find a suitable article that addresses my specific question.

Due to the original DPF retrofit on my Seat Arosa, 1.4 TDI [AMF], manufactured in July 2000, with pump-injector technology (without Longlife/WIV specification), I am looking for a suitable oil that meets the requirements of low-SAPS (free from sulfate ash, phosphorus, and sulfur). VW specifies the standard VW 50501 for pump-injector engines manufactured between 1999 and 2001. At the same time, a DPF requires VW 50700 (e.g., VW LongLife III 5W/30). To my knowledge, however, Longlife oils with a high-temperature viscosity of "30" are not approved by VW for engines of this type and year.
A VAG dealer, after conducting research and speaking to me by phone, informed me that they only use Shell oils meeting the 50700 specification for ALL engines except the R5 TDI and V10 TDI. Which specific oil is this? What product guarantees compliance with both the 50501 specification for the engine AND the required 50700 specification for the DPF? What oil do you use for "older" PD engines in VW workshops, especially when a retrofitted DPF is present? Is there any written information available on this topic?

Castrol responded:
"For the vehicle models produced between 1999 and 2001, an oil meeting the VW 50501 specification is indeed mandatory. You should contact the manufacturer to inquire about the possibility of using a 50700-compliant oil due to the diesel particulate filter. We currently do not have any low-ash oils that meet the VW 50501 standard in our product range."

Pentosin replied:
Oils meeting the VW 50700 standard are designed for Volkswagen vehicles with pump-nozzle engines and extended oil change intervals. They are also specifically formulated for vehicles equipped with Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) due to their low ash/sulfate/phosphorus content ("low SAPS"). An example of such an oil is our Pentosin Super Performance 5W-30.

"Oils meeting the VW 50501 specification are also intended for certain (older) Volkswagen vehicles equipped with pump-nozzle injection systems, but without extended oil change intervals, such as our Pentosynth HC 5W-40. These oils do not meet the criteria for a low SAPS oil and therefore should not be used in vehicles with a diesel particulate filter (DPF)."

In this case, you should really contact your SEAT or Volkswagen dealer, as the responsibility for issues related to the oil lies with them.


I'm at a loss...

Best regards, Maurizio.

I would continue to use the 5W40 oil with the specification 50501 for my car.
It's a conflict or balancing act between the demands of the engine and the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).
I would choose the engine in that case.
"To my knowledge, VAG only refills the retrofitted DPFs with the same type of fluid that was originally used."
For the 50501, the 50700 is also an option, but it comes with a shorter interval and at double the price; however, why would anyone want that?

According to this table, you are allowed to drive at least the 50700 in the AMF.
http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf5/golf5-tips.shtml#oel

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hi,

Quote:

"To my knowledge, VAG only refills the retrofitted DPFs with the same type of fluid that was originally used."

"When I had my DPF retrofit installed by Seat, there were no instructions or documentation provided that indicated I should use a different type of oil. That's why I stuck with the old one... but I am generally interested in this topic."

Best regards,

January.

I'm just guessing here, but the reduced ash formation of the 50700 should be good for the DPF.
But in relation to the impact of the driving profile, it's negligible. It's an open system anyway.

I think the 50700 code is more relevant for closed DPF systems, because the retrofitted filters are open systems and shouldn't really clog.
In my closed system, the 50700 wasn't even available at first. So it can't be that crazy.

Quote:

I'm just guessing, but the reduced ash formation of the 50700 should be good for the DPF. But in relation to the impact of the driving profile, it's a negligible amount... It's an open system

.

Okay. It's an open system, so the ash will fly out.

Many aftermarket filter manufacturers claim their filters are suitable for biodiesel, and in those cases, phosphorus and ash levels that are far beyond acceptable limits are considered normal.

The only thing that can happen is that the catalyst upstream of the particulate filter might become slightly poisoned by phosphorus or coated with calcium after x0000 km, which could limit its effectiveness at low temperatures. Fortunately, this doesn't concern people who are obsessed with emissions stickers (yet).

Please do not use version 507.00, even if it is supposedly backward compatible.
As you've noticed, there are exceptions even among some oil manufacturers.

Follow-up products to 505.01 5W-40 are now available in stores!
-> 505.01 grade, 5W-30 viscosity, low SAPS formulation.
Okay, gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest.
Mobil Syst S Special V 5W-30
Shell Helix Diesel Plus VA 5W-30

Data sheet - Mobile device:
http://www.mobil.com/Germany-German/Lubes/PDS/EUXXDEPVLMOMobil_Syst_S_Special_V_5W-30.asp

UPDATE 02/16/09

If the retrofitted DPF is not mentioned, Castrol is now contradicting itself.

First of all, let me state that the online lubricant advisor did not recommend an incorrect or unsuitable oil for your vehicle. On the contrary, your vehicle requires an oil that meets the VW standard VW 505 01, which, in your case and with your engine, also includes compliance with the VW 507 00 standard.
The aforementioned exception for 3- and 4-cylinder pump-injector engines applies exclusively to the VW brand. Your Seat Arosa is not affected by this exception, even though it features four-cylinder P/D engines without extended maintenance intervals.
The Castrol EDGE SAE 5W-30 (meeting VW 507 00) is approved for your vehicle and could be used without any risk. However, this is a longlife oil, and its properties are not suitable for extended maintenance intervals in your vehicle. Therefore, it makes more sense to continue using an oil that is approved according to VW 505 01. These oils are designed for the standard, fixed intervals of every 12 months or 15,000 km, whichever comes first.
You can perfectly use the Castrol TXT 505 01 5W-40 that you have been using, or the Castrol EDGE Turbo Diesel SAE 5W-40 available in stores (which is also approved according to VW 505 01).

I actually thought this oil manufacturer was competent. But it seems more like ignorance or marketing/justification for their one-size-fits-all oil. The "AMF" is a three-cylinder engine, manufactured by VW. And suddenly, there are probably no other regulations applicable...

I'm just waiting for a direct response from SEAT Germany now.

Best regards, Maurizio.

"...as expected, SEAT Germany has issued the following statement:"

Good day, dear Mr. XYZ,

Your SEAT dealer is correct: For your SEAT Arosa 1.4 TDI with an aftermarket diesel particulate filter, the manufacturer SEAT S.A. still specifies oil that meets the VW standard 50501.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Best regards,

SEAT Germany GmbH
VS-T Customer Support.

Perhaps this answer will also be helpful to others who have retrofitted comparable diesel engines with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

Best regards, Maurizio.

Thank you for the information!
I had a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) retrofitted to my Seat "Rosi" (1.4 AMF), but I haven't given any thought to the oil yet. If anything, the DPF manufacturer should have provided some guidance on that.

Regards,
Adrian.

Maurizio wrote:

...so, as expected, SEAT Germany has issued the following statement: Good day, dear Mr. XYZ, Your SEAT dealer is correct: For your SEAT Arosa 1.4 TDI with an aftermarket diesel particulate filter, the manufacturer SEAT S.A. still specifies oil that meets the VW standard 50501. We hope this information is helpful to you. Best regards, SEAT Germany GmbH VS-T Customer Support. Perhaps this answer will also help others who have retrofitted comparable diesel engines with a DPF. Best regards, Maurizio

Now I'm wondering if oil that doesn't meet the VW specification 50700 is not suitable.
I also believe that a 50700 oil should not be used in these engines!
How do you evaluate Seat's response?
Furthermore, the answer doesn't specify whether a low SAPS oil needs to be used or should be used. As mentioned above, there are now new oils available in 5W-30 that meet the 505.01 specification.
"Previously, it was never possible to use a 505.01 specification oil with a 5W-30 viscosity grade, but that's the case now."
Okay, let's continue to maintain the opinion that an oil meeting the 505.01 specification is better for your engine than one meeting the 507.00 specification.
I suspect that the conflict regarding oil specifications is still relevant and beneficial for the engine, as well as the DPF, even with the new 505.01 oil (which is a 5W-30 grade).

Hello,

Why are you all worrying so much? With an open filter, the same engine oil as before is used, and ash etc. just gets blown through.

Best regards, Rainer.

exactly, it all boils down to the same thing as in my first post... 50 501 5 W40 PD

teileklaus wrote:

Exactly, it all boils down to the same thing as I mentioned in my first post. 50 501 5 W40 PD

Yes, it's a shame that the Seat manufacturer responded in such a superficial way as well.

Similarly, the question arises as to how long the 505.01 specification will still be available in a 5W-40 viscosity grade.
Esso/Mobil only offers the successor product 505.01 in a 5W-30 viscosity grade.
Shell oil, same here.
and the OMV oil is also only available in a 5W-30 viscosity grade.

@Maurizio
What was the total cost of the conversion/upgrade?

Has anyone had any practical experience with chip tuning and the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) on this engine?