Turbocharger: 255 HP - Is That Possible?

We were at a dynamometer today.

It was determined that my car (which has been converted to run on alternative fuel and chipped) produced 188 kW on the dynamometer during the initial test, with a peak of 192 kW.
A few weeks prior, a chipped SEAT LEON ARL was also put on the dynamometer, producing 240 horsepower.
My first thought was that the dynamometer might be inaccurate, but then I tested it with an Audi 3 and a Ford Escort, and each time it gave readings that were roughly consistent with the figures stated in their respective documentation.
According to K-Power, my car has 180 horsepower and 400 Nm of torque, which actually sounds normal.

Is that even possible? Has anyone had any experience with this before?

Is that the noise I described in my other thread, is it the engine?

I read some of your other posts before - still only using a stock gearbox? No way! Also, is that without a new clutch? And with the original PDE components? Absolutely not.

Just the fact that the Leon supposedly had 240 horsepower is already strange. We have some people in the forum who claim to have 200, but when tested on other dynos, it wasn't 200 anymore. It's almost impossible to get over 200 horsepower from the 1.9 engine with the highest original equipment. Achieving a genuine 190 horsepower is quite easy with just a chip tune... but a turbo?

I don't believe that either; the performance is clearly too high. Only the test bench indicated that the readings were correct.
Okay, then the other cars that were running on the same day must have even fewer [issues/problems], but something just doesn't seem right about the results.

The car came with a box, but it's just for testing. (Honestly, almost any brand of box will fit, and the car is basically the same whether you use one or not – it's just the usual stuff everyone knows. But several people here have confirmed that using a box isn't really the best option.)

Normally, it's an ASZ engine converted to run on biodiesel with a modified tuning map (usually around 180 horsepower). But 255 hp is quite a bit too much.
The clutch is new (it's from the company Sachs, but according to ARL and ASZ, the clutches are the same as PDEs).
I actually wanted to exceed the magical 200 horsepower mark, but as you mentioned, it's hardly possible with an ASZ engine. I thought I would just see how much power is still missing to reach that goal.
"Just shifting up a gear (free gear selection), reducing speed – it's definitely faster than a V6 with 164 horsepower."

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

Hello,

Quote:

Can an ASZ engine with 255 horsepower be possible?

No, that can't be right.

Quote:

According to K-Power, I have 180 horsepower and 400 Nm of torque, which actually sounds normal.

I would say that's quite realistic.

If the person on the dynamometer says that the 255 horsepower is okay, then either they have no experience and just said something random, or they operated the dynamometer incorrectly (which is also possible).

The various aftermarket intercoolers are definitely too small, so either convert to an ARL/BPX intercooling system or install an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) part.

Best regards, Rainer.

The ARL intercooler is now installed.

I will have the test run repeated again.

What exactly should I pay attention to in order for the run to be carried out correctly?

The run was conducted as follows:
- Vehicle brought to operating temperature.
- Vehicle secured.
- followed by a run where you should maintain speeds of 40, 60, 80, 100, and 110 [units - e.g., km/h or mph].
- An air blower was placed in front of the car.
- Then I rode and shifted up to 4th gear, and pulled the throttle all the way open in that gear (it didn't rev limiter).
- Then let it roll out until it reaches zero.

The result at 4th gear, with a speed of 110 km/h, is approximately 188 kW, which corresponds to about 2900 RPM.

Theoretically, I could run the KPower system alongside the other setup, or not. However, if I do, I would be missing the wind and weight components.

I have to mention that the test bench belongs to a vocational school (the run was free), and its software is somewhat outdated, but it is maintained and should provide accurate results.
Interestingly, the testing equipment only malfunctions with diesel engines that have completely incorrect readings.
I wasn't the first one there.

acuransx wrote:

- then a run where you should maintain the speed at 40, 60, 80, 100, and 110. The result at 110 km/h in the fourth gear is 188 kW, which corresponds to approximately 2900 RPM. Theoretically, I could run the KPower system alongside the other setup, or not? But then I would lose the wind and weight benefits. I have to mention that the test bench belongs to a vocational school (the run was free), and its software is somewhat outdated, but it is maintained and should provide accurate results. Interestingly, the testing equipment only malfunctions with diesel engines that have completely incorrect readings. I wasn't the first one there.

How did they measure the engine speed? That reading of 2900 rpm doesn't make any sense considering the power curve of a typical gasoline car diesel engine.
What do the air pressure and temperature readings say on the log? Perhaps the testing rig's computer registered an ambient pressure of 500 mbar.

Hmm... You're asking questions that I can't really answer right now; I need to ask the person who knows first.

"I have to admit, the performance curve was quite strange."
I have no idea how he managed to capture everything. I'll try uploading the image tomorrow.

There is no indication of the speed on the display.
"Only the km/h and kW values are relevant. At 110 km/h, it has 188 kW. I read the RPM from the tachometer."
It might also be because there's no resistance. On the test bench, the car easily reaches 260 km/h, and in real life, it's around 240 km/h, but after accounting for speedometer inaccuracies, that leaves about 225 km/h, which suggests that the actual horsepower might be closer to 180.

However, on the same day, two other cars were using the same fuel, and everything seemed to be working fine with them (gasoline), so it must be due to something else.

According to KPower, which I always use for comparison because it provides a good before-and-after analysis, the current weather conditions are generating approximately 30 kW more than originally expected.

However, when I tell them that their testing setup is wrong, they just laugh at me.
and it's more likely that they think something is wrong with my car because I don't have any real arguments to support my claim.

'In my opinion, around 200 horsepower is approximately the upper limit for a chipped ARL engine. Please provide the measurement data (printout). What was the effective power output?'
The clutch is already struggling with 400 Nm of torque, and without other performance enhancements (PDEs), even a large supercharger won't provide enough power.

180 degrees on the wheel is enough too!

Tom.

Well, it seems there are some misunderstandings. A dynamometer measures the vehicle's resistance during acceleration by determining the parasitic power loss. Like my predecessor, I see an error here. It's also possible that savings were made on other parameters, such as air pressure. But seriously, if you're getting 188 kW from a nearly stock 1.9 TDI engine at 2900 rpm...at the very least, this should cast doubt on the results of the measurement, along with other values.

I've uploaded the log file; it looks very strange.
The theoretical maximum speed is 3100 revolutions per minute.

I showed the person who had taken the performance test the protocol from kPower.
He says that the performance will likely increase again when tested in 4th gear, is that really the case since 4th gear is the direct drive?
Unfortunately, I can't test that (I live in the mountains, so I'm just glad to find one that works for third gear).

I also checked the boost pressure in my car. It's currently at about 1.8 bar (at 2200 RPM), but it keeps decreasing until it reaches 1.5 bar (at 4200 RPM). Is this normal? The wastegate valve opens up to 76% and stays there, but the boost pressure still drops.
Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English. I will then give you only the translation, without any explanations. Also, please note that I cannot access or process files attached as Excel documents. You'll need to copy and paste the relevant text from the file into our conversation.

Sorry, that's complete nonsense. Someone couldn't operate the testing equipment again. Honestly... isn't it that difficult? It really gets annoying to constantly have such blatant incompetence shoved in your face. Just now, someone already emailed me something similar .

And then those same guys come along with their €50,000 valuation estimates and have philosophical discussions about the measurement accuracy of KPower on slow controllers, when they should first learn how to use their own equipment.

Best regards, Rainer.

Soweit man Dein Protokoll in der miesen Aufbereitung richtig lesen kann sehe ich in Zeile 16-22 LD-Spitzen bis 2,7 bar absolut, und 332 mbar über SOLL. That's something.
The pressure shouldn't drop when you're giving it full throttle, unless the software is programmed to do so.
haithamina

"Sorry, I only uploaded the final result. I personally have no idea how it should be done correctly, so that's why I wanted to ask for your opinion."

Just to reassure you, so far, the Kpower has worked better and more accurately for me than the previous testing setup, as you can see.

What went wrong with the measurement, or were there any issues with the equipment on the test bench?

I don't think this is intentional with the boost pressure; it doesn't really make sense.

Here's the slightly modified version of the Excel file.

Hi,

Quote:

He says that the performance will likely increase again when tested in 4th gear, is that really the case since 4th gear is already the highest direct gear?

Complete nonsense. The power output of the engine is completely independent of the gear selected. Just with that comment, he revealed his ignorance... especially since I have no idea what a "direct" gear is supposed to be. Maybe that's something from back when having 4 gears was the maximum?

The approach used by DZR or KPower is to take the known mass of the car and calculate the power based on the resulting acceleration. The gear doesn't really matter initially, but third gear is very practical because in second gear you would have traction problems, and also the engine speed would be too fast for accurate measurement. In fourth gear, air resistance becomes significantly more relevant (4000 RPM in fourth gear corresponds to approximately 150 km/h).

Best regards,

January.

The statement about the direct drive should apply to a 5-speed gearbox (or did apply), as then the power is transmitted directly from the input shaft, which improves the efficiency of the gearbox. I'm not entirely sure which gear in a 6-speed gearbox would have the least loss – but I suspect it might be the 5th gear. After all, a 6-speed gearbox is a two-shaft design...which is why the axle ratio differs between the 1st-4th gears and the 5th-6th gears.
'...by the way, in most of the testing rigs I'm familiar with, measurements are usually taken in 5th gear...' (referring to a vehicle with a 6-speed transmission).

Devilseye503 wrote:

The thing about direct drive should apply to a 5-speed gearbox (or did apply), because then the power goes directly from the input shaft, which improves the efficiency of the gearbox. With a 6-speed gearbox, I'm not entirely sure which gear would have the least loss - but I'm guessing it's the 5th gear. After all, a 6-speed gearbox is a two-shaft design...which is why the axle ratio differs between the 1st-4th gears and the 5th-6th gears. ...by the way, in most of the testing benches I know, measurements are usually taken at the 5th gear...when it comes to the 6-speed

.

Hi there,

In my opinion, this is done because there might be slippage on the rollers in the lower gears, and at higher gears, the risk is already increased simply due to the speed of the drive shaft.

It doesn't matter which gear is selected for the measurement; ultimately, only the coupling is disengaged at the end of the measurement, and the gear remains engaged. This is how the drag power of the transmission, drives, wheels, and all influencing factors is determined.

Sure, the friction from the transmission oil is lower when the primary and secondary shafts rotate at approximately the same speed, but test benches have been determining power loss since the time of Albert Einstein.

For an accurate measurement, you need three main parameters:
- Engine speed (measured using a microphone on the vehicle, alternator harmonics, ignition timing, etc.).
- Wheel speed (measured on a test bench)
- Torsional moment (also measured by the dynamometer).
And then there are correction factors such as intake air temperature, air pressure, etc.
Putting aside the proper setup and operation for a moment.