2.0 TDI 16V: The New Generation

Hi,

Bertil has once again shared some interesting news!
http://home.t-online.de/home/richarda.borgwardt/auto/aktuell/touran_tec/touran_mot.htm
The URL comes from a different post, but that discussion was probably not the right place for it.

Does this seriously mean that the entire interaction between the crankshaft and camshaft is driven by a timing belt?
Could it be that only the two camshafts are connected by a timing belt?
Then, only one side could potentially be defective .
What will it be like when the version with 180 horsepower and 400 Nm of torque is released?

However, the torque curve is quite impressive!
320 Nm between 1750 and 2500 rpm - very pleasant, this torque curve resembles that of Table Mountain!

'Drilling and pumping sound familiar to me... *thinking* *scratching head*'
Das sind ja die Daten vom AAT, nur ohne 5. Cylinders!
So, everything remains the same.
Can the drilling be expanded further now, or is it already at its maximum size?

P.S.:
Bertil, when will your 827 history be available?

Camshaft drive is once again using a timing belt. Additionally, it will now drive 8 more valves. The fuel savings achieved can still be used to pay the dealer for the timing belt replacement. It has probably become even more difficult to do yourself, in order to prevent DIY repairs and to provide the workshop with a reliable source of income. }

I read that there is a 5-cylinder engine with a gear-driven camshaft (or camshafts) for the new T5. Can anyone confirm this?

mcgregg

Okay, since Markus has started a new thread, here's my complete response from the other thread:

Bertil wrote:

By the way, I read some initial information about the new 2L 16V PD-TDI engine online yesterday... New PD-TDI engine in the Tuaran (later Golf 5). "... and there it actually says '4-valve technology, 2 camshafts driven by a timing belt'. Great. Since one camshaft and the VVT components have already damaged the timing belt, we're now going to try adding another camshaft... because it's fun and supposedly lasts longer." Where did the geared motors go? The motor presented there is an 827 model with an 81mm bore (like the 1.8L gasoline engine). It was probably cheaper to carry over the old (35-year-old) engine for another model series. It's surprising that the 74kW PD-TDI engine now supposedly has a "switchable EGR cooling" system... it's strange because mine also has it, and it's from the end of 2001!

That's all there is to say about technological progress...

By the way, the AXR system, through modified power distribution components, has reduced the load on the drive by 30% (according to Bosch). At the same time, a timing belt with an asymmetrical tooth profile was introduced. Furthermore, the timing belt has been reinforced again and, according to Conti, is 20% more durable. Therefore, there is hope that the problem is now resolved.

Bosch refers to the PD system used in the AXR engine as PD 1.1 (featuring a higher partial injection pressure, reduced driving forces, and a modified nozzle geometry).

Hello,

According to Continental, the new generation of timing belts (specifically for PD engines) is initially expected to last 60,000 to 90,000 kilometers. Work is already underway to further double its lifespan.

Hello.

Having followed the ongoing nonsense about timing belts, I (as a TDI enthusiast) have just drawn the conclusion for my next vehicle:

Just as I currently drive one of the last-built (= most refined ) Golf 3 models, my next car will likely be an Ibiza with a 96 kW PD engine, if it ever becomes a discontinued model.

If we project the development of the current model changeover times into the future, I would therefore have to go to the Seat dealer no later than after Easter (this year) to still get one .

OM611 wrote:

Hello, According to Continental, the new generation of timing belts (specifically for PD engines) is initially expected to have a lifespan of 60-90,000 km.

Work is already underway to further double the lifespan.

According to Conti, the more durable timing belt has been installed since 9/2001 (i.e., since the AXR ).

@Ulf

Get an AXR engine, as it uses the PD1.1 technology, which puts less strain on the timing belt. With Seat, it will likely take a bit longer for them to implement this.
An 81kw AUDI A3 is clearly inferior to my 74kw "Pampersbomber" }!

Bertil wrote:

Get an AXR engine because it uses the PD1.1 technology, which puts less strain on the timing belt. With Seat, as usual, it will probably take some time.

Hi Bertil.

If I'm going to get a performance upgrade, I'd prefer the 96 kW (130 hp) boost for the "smaller" Ibiza.
Or, in the case of the Polo, if it ever gets the 96 engine.
74 kW would nominally be a step backward, and that's with more weight .

But I'm only planning to do that when the current PD generation dies out. And by then, maybe Seat will also have the 1.1 technology...

Quote:

An 81kw AUDI A3 is clearly inferior to my 74kw "Pampersbomber". It may be true, but your '74 is probably more of an '85 in reality

.

But what about the consumption?
With roughly the same driving style as with your old 1Z, the increased weight likely results in approximately 0.3 liters more fuel consumption.

ulf wrote:

"] ... if I'm going to get a performance upgrade, I'd prefer the 96 kW (129 hp) boost for the "smaller" Ibiza. Or, in the case of the Polo, if it ever gets the 96 engine. 74 kW would nominally be a step backward, and that's with more weight .

Are you perhaps addicted to Dremoment right now?
I have to tell you about our 1.0L Lupo with 37 kW, which I'm going to use to help me get used to driving something different...

Quote:

But I'm only planning to do that when the current PD generation dies out. And by then, maybe Seat will also have the 1.1 technology...

Possible. In that case, it's definitely an alternative.

Quote:

... Your 74 model is probably more of an 85 model in reality .

ÄÄÄHHHM --- No comment

Quote:

But what about the consumption? With approximately the same driving style as with your old 1Z, the increased weight likely results in roughly 0.3 liters more fuel consumption.

Poorly rated -- 6.1 (AXR) versus 6.0 (1Z), although I should mention that the 1Z values represent the average over 5 years. The AXR data, on the other hand, is only available since October and was obtained using winter tires.
However, the AXR engine has also reached extremely high consumption levels (11.5 L/100km) in the past.
This trip was a nightmare. Driving my campervan through the autumn storm "Jeanette." At times, I had to floor the accelerator in fourth gear going downhill just to maintain speed.

Try the AXR engine out with your girlfriend's car. I can highly recommend it. However, it's not a VP engine, and a PD engine can be quite rough, especially when it's cold.

Bertil wrote:

Try the AXR out with your girlfriend. I can highly recommend it. However, it's not a VP engine, and something like a PD can be quite rough, especially when it's cold.

I once had the pleasure of driving one, although I don't know if it was an AXR: last summer, I test drove a brand new Polo that was fully loaded with extras, but the customer who ordered it didn't accept it.

The low end was practically on par with my Golf, but the high end was a bit lacking.

Well, it's not fully broken in yet, and I haven't pushed it too hard. But even just a quick burst of full throttle for a couple of seconds gives you a good idea of what it's capable of.

Ultimately, he probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between "my naked car" and my tractor (with the power box turned off).

But if we're already talking about PD (presumably referring to a specific technology or product), then I would like to see a significant improvement in its performance and capabilities.

ulf wrote:

... But if we're already talking about PD, then I would like to see a certain improvement in temperament, thanks to the potential of the technology.

... so, addicted to Dremel again...

Bertil wrote:

... so, addicted to Dremel again...

Oh, not a trace... how on earth do you even come up with something like that ?

And generally: Torque - what exactly is that ?

... so, addicted to Dremel tools after all...

Oh, not a trace... how on earth do you even come up with something like that ?

And generally: Torque - what exactly is that ?

Hi Ulf,

'So, I would also describe torque as resulting in increased tire wear. Our friends also enjoy the powerful torque of a 130hp TDI in their Bora, and they need to replace their front tires every 30,000 to 40,000 kilometers.'
The feeling of a plane taking off is awesome, but it's also expensive.

Eike.

eike wrote:

Some of our friends also enjoy the powerful torque of a 130hp TDI engine in their BORA, and they all need new front tires every 30,000-40,000 km.

Hi Eike,

Since I generally drive in a way that avoids shifting gears frequently, the "problem" would likely be limited in my case - but every TDI driver would probably welcome a bit more power in 5th (or 6th) gear.

By the way: Do you know anything about previous issues that your friends' 130 models have had (especially the jerky behavior)?

By the way: do you know anything about previous problems with the 130 models of your friends' cars (especially the issue with the jerky movement)?

Hello Ulf,
So far, I am not aware of any issues. They are very satisfied with the car.
I will definitely follow up on that at some point.

Regards,

Eike.

Hi,

Has anyone actually come across any consumption data for the new 2.0 TDI 16V engine?

What kind of progress can we expect in this regard?
Will there actually be any progress (after all, it's not really a timing belt...)?