ASV Glow Wire Heater

Hello everyone,

I'm intentionally not including this in the glow plug heater/AFN thread, because that thread ended up focusing on automatic transmissions and similar topics.

I'm currently in the process of equipping my glow plug heating system, similar to what Ulf did, with a monitoring system by adding LEDs in parallel.

I know from Ulf that the relay responsible for this should be located near the BKV (at least in the ALH model) in the 6K, but my brief search there today was unsuccessful (perhaps the ASV is located differently there). I haven't removed the engine cover yet, due to the onset of darkness and for time reasons, because you could trace the cables from the spark plugs (if there are any) from there.

Next, I connected the diagnostic tool to the vehicle's computer and performed a diagnostic test of the actuators.

The pre-relay, as well as the fan relay, could be clearly heard clicking. Additionally, the light has become noticeably dimmer, while the actuator diagnosis was constantly switching on and off.

The two indicators for high and low heating power do come on, but nothing can be observed while they are active. The light doesn't get dimmer, and there are no clicks – neither inside the car nor at the front. I also didn't hear any gurgling sounds, although it was quite windy, so those faint noises might have been masked by the wind.

Furthermore, the engine was quite warm after 40 km of driving, but as far as I understand the actuator diagnostics, that shouldn't matter.

Okay, here are three questions for those of you who have already tried this:

What does the actuator diagnosis do for the spark plugs? Does it cycle between on and off, or just turn them on?

Is the power draw so noticeable that the interior light has to dim, or does that not happen precisely because the candles are drawing power directly from the battery, and therefore not putting a load on the instrument panel's wiring?

Could there be manual TDI engines that don't have glow plugs? Or, to put it another way, is it possible that the glow plugs are simply not present in the NL version of the ASV engine?

Best regards,

Jan.

P.S.: Of course, I will also dismantle the cladding, but I also want to explore which considerations make sense and which don't.

Could it be that the candles are not included in the NL version of the ASV?


Yes, that's definitely possible.

I've seen two Octavia models (presumably from the Netherlands) that didn't have glow plugs.

It's best to take a look; you can usually see the strut without having to remove the engine cover.

See the picture; this is what the sock looks like without the heating element.

CU Gremlin.

Hi Gremlin,

Thank you for your reply and the picture. I'll see if I can find something similar without having to disassemble anything (the 6K model has a completely enclosed front). Otherwise, I'll do it when I install the LDA sensors.

Hopefully, I can find some – I've actually integrated some nice LEDs specifically for that purpose into the LDA technology. Well... if not, I can always use them for something else... or I can connect the pre-glow to all three instead of just one, as planned.

I'm surprised that the actuator diagnosis shows the heating system is active, and that there are no negative error messages.

Does anyone know what happens when an actuator is missing or malfunctioning during actuator diagnostics? Does it trigger an error, or is the purpose only to allow manual observation (using a multimeter, etc.) of how the EDC controls the actuators, without the system actually monitoring them?

@Gremlin: Did you ever activate the actuator diagnosis on any of the NL-Octavia models mentioned?

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

I'll see if I can find something like that without disassembly (on the 6K, it's completely blocked in the front), otherwise I'll do it during the installation of the LDA sensors.

Hi Jan,

In German ALH engines, you can see the glow plugs relatively late, specifically after removing the upper engine cover. If you trace the individual cable bundles above the transmission, you'll notice that one thin bundle ends near the vacuum pump, splitting into three separate cables with angled connectors that connect to the glow plugs.
It's good to see from above.

If you can't find anything like that, you probably received a 6K tropical version (or something similar).

Does anyone know what happens when an actuator is missing or malfunctioning during actuator diagnostics? Does it trigger an error, or is the purpose only to allow manual observation (using a multimeter, etc.) of how the EDC controls the actuators, without the system actually monitoring them?

'The latter. I once coded my automatic transmission to act like a manual transmission, and then you can also access the actuator test for the heating system. But nothing happens. The EDC just switches the intended outputs on and off. If nothing is connected, then nothing works...'

@Gremlin: Did you ever activate the actuator diagnosis on any of the NL-Octavia models mentioned?

Unfortunately, I don't have a laptop available.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Cu Gremlin'

Hello Ulf, hello Gremlin,

Thank you for your replies... it seems that my car does not actually have a GSH (presumably referring to a specific component). I just went down to check, but unfortunately, I couldn't remove the engine cover because I have my socket set at work. However, it does appear that it's not there.

I took a few pictures just to be sure, but to me, it looks very clearly like the part from the Gremlins image. You can take a look and see what you think... I can clearly see the flange piece from the Gremlins image instead of the differently shaped piece with the GSH marking.

What surprises me even more is that my car actually has very few problems warming up properly in the winter. While it takes about 15 to 20 km to reach the 90-degree water temperature in very cold temperatures, I haven't experienced any issues with the temperature not staying at 90 degrees, not even in gentle city driving where the engine speed rarely exceeds 1400 rpm and the average fuel consumption is only 5.4 liters. Could it be that the very tightly packed engine compartment plays a role, keeping the heat where it is needed?

Best regards,

Jan.

Edit: I've added the third picture... I was too hasty when I submitted.

Jan6K wrote:

It seems that my car does NOT have GSH.

Yes, I just checked our ALH again:
The three spark plug connectors are located right next to the vacuum pump, standing upright like a punk hairstyle. They are very noticeable.
There's nothing like that with you -> so no GSH.

Hi,

Then it's proven... It's strange that there are differences in that area between Germany and the Netherlands.

Now, I just need to figure out what I should connect to the LEDs instead of the GSH .

Upgrading the heated seats doesn't seem worthwhile to me, because it rarely gets that cold in Berlin that it would make a difference, and I have my seat heater for that anyway.

One could consider building something similar that can be controlled manually, like those immersion heater systems, but using 12 volts during the initial minutes of driving. If you were to put, say, 300 watts into it, it might make a difference.

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

Now I just need to figure out what I should connect to the LEDs instead of the GSH )

.
Hi Jan,

I would connect the LEDs, for example, in parallel with the VTG and AGR solenoid valves. I would take the common positive connection from the 109 output and tap into the switched cable at each valve for the negative connection.
Then you can see how the valves are controlled (of course, it won't work if the sun is shining on it ): the brighter the LED lights up, the more open the EGR valve is, or the "sharper" the turbocharger is controlled.

If something isn't working correctly, it might sometimes be noticeable through unusual light patterns.

Hi Ulf,

I had also considered that, but ultimately rejected it as a "permanent installation." To make it work, you would have to choose the resistors in such a way that you could still see lower brightness levels during the day (without direct sunlight), but that would become blinding at night.

Because these LEDs would then be constantly illuminated, and not just briefly after starting.

For the same reason, I also rejected the idea of controlling the fan relay, because even that runs more or less constantly in the summer when the air conditioning is on.

What would also be possible is to switch the resistors using relays, depending on whether the light is on or not... *grins*

Let's see...

Technically, this would also have to work against the majority, meaning that the logic of brightness would be reversed – in the case of the VTG, "bright" would indicate that it is being throttled.

You measured something like that before, right? What's the actual key press frequency? For the desired effect, it should be 30 Hz or more.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hello Jan!

Okay, it seems we have even more in common (AEX, ASZ, etc.) than I thought. Our two diesel engines are also from the Netherlands. And it gets even better: apparently, the Dutch don't freeze. My ASZ doesn't have the GSH either (it's a shame it took 15 months to notice). Do you know of anything else that your car doesn't have that a regular German diesel does?

Well, I guess we'll have to crank up the heated seats and let the poor engine freeze.

Matthias.

Hi,

By the way, I took off the engine cover yesterday, which confirmed what we already knew.

"@Matthias: The 6K Signo that I test drove two years ago had those dampened grab handles, like the ones in the Passat, but mine doesn't have them either. It seems they're not needed in the Netherlands."

Then, in the German 6K, the brake indicator is displayed as a very large "P" among the other indicators, whereas in mine, it's integrated with the other indicators.

Otherwise, in Germany, there's supposedly another power outlet in the trunk, but mine doesn't have one either.

However, he now has a digital LDA (Lean Definition Analyzer), a digital voltmeter, and a half-functional oil temperature gauge (half-functional because I still need to slightly modify the dipstick and replace two potentiometers).

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

However, he now has a digital LDA, a digital voltmeter, and a half oil temperature gauge (half because I still need to slightly modify the dipstick and replace two trimmers).

Hi Jan,
and where are the photos??

Hi Ulf,

They're still missing, because I didn't have time yesterday after working on it (and especially during that time), and it's too dark now to take nice photos. Also, a few cable management pieces are still needed to make it truly perfect, and I'm not entirely sure about the calibration of the LDA yet.

I calibrated it using a voltmeter and characteristic curve, as well as with a large syringe, but I'm not entirely sure about its performance in real-world use. I'm seeing overshoots that go slightly above 1.3 bar, which is quite a lot. On the other hand, after the overshoot, the boost pressure settles down to almost exactly 1 bar when the throttle is fully open, which seems correct.

VAG-COM recorded a peak value of just under 1.2 bar, but then also showed fluctuations settling around exactly 1 bar.

I'm not entirely sure if there might be damping elements in the control unit, because I can easily imagine that when the turbocharger is spooling up, there could be a pressure surge that could cause something like that. My display works without any inertia (unlike an analog display, which has to move mechanical parts), so such a very short spike is definitely conceivable.

I will, however, test this further with a longer measurement run, provided that the 100W converter doesn't blow the fuse again, like it did when I tried to power the 55W hot glue gun (the laptop only lasts about 10 minutes on battery ).

The problem is that on my way to work, I can't really accelerate anywhere to maintain a constant pressure.

At pressures of around 0.2 bar, which is what you can achieve when stationary, my reading is accurate within about 20 mbar.

However, I can assure you that there will be pictures.

Best regards,

Jan.