Copper charge air pipes

Hello.

I was wondering if it would be possible to make the charge air pipes out of copper instead of aluminum or stainless steel. I haven't seen anyone do this before, so I was curious what the drawbacks might be. Surely, copper can withstand the pressure and heat. See heating.
What do you think about that?

Golfmann wrote:

Hello. I was wondering if it would be possible to make the charge air pipes out of copper instead of aluminum or stainless steel. I haven't seen anyone do this before, so I was curious what the drawbacks might be. Surely, copper can withstand the pressure and heat. See heating. What do you think about that?

Hello,

Technically speaking, there's nothing against it. If you're lucky, the pipes might even be cheaper, especially if you can source them from, for example, the gas and water supply sector. However, they will only look good if you paint them with a transparent coating; otherwise, they will eventually turn black (like a gutter). Before painting, polish the surface and avoid touching it again (to prevent fingerprints).

Best regards, Uli.

Hi,

From a technical perspective, copper shouldn't be a major problem (referring to my EGR gasket).
is made of 0.8mm copper and has survived the last approximately 80,000 km without any damage.
but - what is so beautiful about Grünspan

Best regards, Rudi.

@ Uli: you were two minutes faster .

Regarding paint: as soon as there's even a small defect (during installation or otherwise).
dran ist -> Verdigris

Thank you for the confirmation. I also haven't found anything that would suggest otherwise.
We have a distillery, and it's also made of copper. We use a special type of polish for it. Polishing it once a year is enough. How it holds up in the rain, etc., I'll have to see. I'll give it a try.

Hello,

There probably wouldn't be as much gravel and road salt at the distillery.

Best regards, Rainer.

What about the strength of a copper pipe?
'That will be subjected to quite a bit of cyclical stress... hopefully, it won't lead to a permanent failure.'

and do not directly modify the aluminum low-loader or -loader .

CU Gremlin.

Hello,

There probably isn't as much gravel and road salt in the distillery area...

Greetings, Rainer

You're probably right. That's what I will then see.


and do not directly modify the aluminum-cased LED lights or chargers.

No, I'll probably use the silicone hoses to make it airtight.



What about the strength of a copper pipe, actually?
'It's going to be subjected to quite a bit of cyclical stress... hopefully, it won't lead to a permanent failure.'

A friend of mine is a locksmith working at a butcher shop. He says that the copper pipes with a 45 mm diameter are about 1.5 mm thick and are still lighter than stainless steel. They have cleaning systems that operate with pulsating water pressure of over 30 bar at high temperatures. It definitely needs to be durable.

The reason for this project, besides the aesthetics, is that I converted from a 1Z to an AFN engine and used a lot of silicone hoses back then (because I was too cheap to buy original parts). And you've probably all seen how those hoses expand at 1 bar of pressure. That's why I want to make it out of a single piece of metal, except for the connection points at the turbocharger and the intercooler. I'm hoping for at least a slightly improved response.

Hmm, so, copper is a) very expensive, b) heavier, and c) softer. I believe thermal conductivity doesn't play a negative role, even though it's significantly higher in copper than in aluminum, for example.
If I were in your position, I would suggest using a nickel-plated steel pipe, as it is pressure-resistant and less prone to damage.
Simpler: You polish your aluminum pipes...

Hm, so, copper is a) very expensive, b) heavier, and c) softer.

Okay, the price doesn't matter. Whatever I get now, I'll probably end up with leftover pieces from my colleague anyway. He gets them from the scrap bin at the company. They use copper, stainless steel, and aluminum.

I didn't know it would be that difficult.

'Weicher' – do you mean it might be too soft? I don't actually think so, when it comes to strength.

With aluminum, the problem is that I can't weld it myself; my colleague at work would have to do it. And then, either the angles won't be right, or he'll have a different idea about how it should be done. I can weld/solder stainless steel and copper myself.

I don't know either...

'No one has copper yet, that's why I had the idea.'

Hello,

Julian wrote:

Hm, so, copper is a) very expensive, b) heavier, and c) softer.

a) That's relative. In the Golf and the 35i, I used a thick fuel line made of 12mm copper pipe, which was cheaper than the 12mm PA (plastic) pipe used in the Bulli and the 32B. While the material Cu is probably more expensive, the material cost probably plays a minor role in the final price, especially when I look at the price lists of well-known tuning companies . I've been browsing the rainwater downspout section at the hardware store (my van still needs a low-loss coolant), but unfortunately, they don't have them in 50mm. The smallest size they have is 70mm, but it's significantly cheaper than the tuning accessory pipes.
b) Copper has a density of 8.9 g/cm³, while VA is likely around 7.9. It doesn't matter at all.
c) In our Passat 35i, the tubes are made of plastic, which is even softer and works great.

Best regards, Uli.

I went with the universal exhaust pipe, 55 mm. You can polish it, etc., and it's very cheap and durable. Is it available by the meter?

arne

Universal exhaust pipe 55 mm - that's what I got. You can also polish it, etc., and it's very cheap and durable. Is it available by the meter?

arne

Good that you're reaching out.
What about a 55mm size? Isn't the turbo lag too large? Is the original size 50mm, right?
The loader will then take a minimum amount of extra time to fill it. I know you had a VNT17 and a chip, but what was it like with the original power output?

I've actually decided to go with VA after all. It's the easiest and looks good.

Could someone quickly tell me what diameter would be most suitable?
I wanted to place the order tonight.

hello

Copper and aluminum absorb the temperature in the engine compartment and transfer it to the intake air, more so than plastic. It's not exactly performance-enhancing, but it looks good when it's sealed.

Hi Golfman,

I certainly don't mean to imply that it has a significantly larger turbo lag than other models.
Remembering AFNs... don't worry, that's already...
OK.

Regards,
arne

Arne wrote:

Hi Golfman, I certainly don't mean to imply that it has a significantly larger turbo lag than other models. Remembering AFNs... don't worry, that's already... OK. Regards, arne

Hello Arne,

"I agree with you, and I'll go even further: I think the talk about delayed pressure build-up due to thicker/longer/softer hoses or larger intercoolers is just pub talk. In my 35i with the AAZ engine, we have hoses that are over 2 meters long, and the turbocharger spools up very responsively. The pressure builds almost instantaneously from around 1800 rpm when you press the accelerator. In a Golf 2, the hoses are about 40 cm long, and in a Golf 32 B, they're about 30 cm long, and they don't spool up any faster." The turbocharger size is the same for all three (Garrett T2).
Example calculation: A 2-liter engine consumes 30 liters of air per second at 1800 RPM. I highly doubt that the driver would notice the additional 2 liters (per meter of pipe length with a 50mm diameter).

Best regards, Uli.

I've decided to go with 50mm stainless steel. I think that's okay.
I'll let you know next week if it worked.