50700er Oele | Posts 16+

dieselmartin wrote:

Quote: Again, Longlife III = HC oil, no matter what they write on the page. Okay, but they are attributing it to the *product* that they are selling in Germany. So, it's either a violation of the terms of service or a breach of law. m;

Okay, I called Ravenol.
LL3 5W30 is a fully synthetic oil! It is backward compatible with specifications 50700/50400.
There is also a VPD 5W40 hydrocracked semi-synthetic oil available, which does not meet the Low Viscosity (LL) standard, has a Wide Interval Viscosity (WIV) rating, and complies with the VW 505.01 PD specification.
The datasheet will be sent to me shortly.

Great, thanks Klaus.

I took the liberty of removing the image from my quote when I sent it to you, so that it would be easier to read.

Will you publish the datasheet here?

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Okay, I won't admit defeat until I've seen the datasheet. Also, I'm willing to learn.
However, I spoke with an Audi engine engineer who deals with oils and approvals, and he assured me that there is no fully synthetic oil with the specification 50700. We'll see .

'@teileklaus, could you please share the datasheet with me once you receive it?'

Thank you.
Have a nice weekend.

I have the datasheet with fully synthetic.
When scanning, the resulting characters are often illegible, and it takes too long to try and decipher them.
If someone sends me a fax number, I will make it accessible.

Here's the fax:

I'll stick with my Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30. It has a synthetic base oil, but a high viscosity index (HTHS) of 3.58, and it's also relatively inexpensive on eBay.

Regards,
Pete.

Hello,

You can say whatever you want, but something is wrong with the datasheet.

Under the 'Quality Classification' section, it states that the oil is practically proven and tested in engines according to ACEA A5/B5, BUT A5/B5 is equivalent to A3/B3, except with a reduced HTHS of at least 2.9. However, the 50700/50400 does not have a reduced HTHS.
These contradictions are not very reassuring.

So, after further research, it appears that the term 'fully synthetic' is no longer protected, and oils based on HC (hydrocarbon) formulations can now also be referred to as such.
The previous definition that fully synthetic oils are primarily based on PAO is no longer entirely accurate.

Consensus proposal: Somehow, we're all right.

Thomas K. wrote:

Hello,... It states under the "Quality Classification" that the oil is practically proven and tested in generators according to ACEA A5/B5, BUT A5/B5 = like A3/B3, but with a reduced HTHS of min. 2.9. However, the 50700/50400 does not have a reduced HTHS.

Hello, I called Ravenol again.

The LL3 has an HTHS value of over 3.4 and would be considered a viscosity modifier.
Release 50 700 and 50 400.
The technician will call back again tomorrow.
I requested confirmation via a datasheet; let's see if anything comes back.

Breaking news from the oil market.
Ravenol LL3 is considered a fully synthetic oil in some countries.
It's sold in Germany through the same label, which is a testament to its high quality.
The datasheet is partially incorrect: The HTHS value is better than 3.5, while the datasheet states 3.4.
The base of the oil is a synthetic hydrocarbon (HC) oil.
Contact person at Ravenol: Ms. Spindler / Mr. Huning.

Hi,

It all depends on the term 'fully synthetic.' It would be better to ask a technician what the hydrocarbon component is in that oil.
The oil has a viscosity index (VI) of 160 – there's no way anyone would produce that with a fully synthetic oil.

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Micha'

...and it only meets the performance requirements of specifications 50700/50400, meaning it is not approved by Volkswagen.

I still maintain that the oil is not 'fully synthetic,' as indicated by the term 'HC-synthetic oil.' That's quite clear.

Typical standard, low-cost motor oil from the supermarket.

...and it only meets the performance requirement for 50700/50400, meaning it is not approved by Volkswagen.


'Wait a minute, isn't 50700/50400 a Volkswagen approval?'

As I was told, there is an approval.
It could be the case (assumption).
that it was not tested according to the specifications of VW standard 50700, but rather that it meets the requirements of Ravenol's laboratory tests. It is likely that oils are tested and developed together with the engines, and then receive approval.
They will then be included in the original equipment if the price is right. Other applicants are rejected and forced to develop their own products based on the released oils and specifications?
Who knows more about that?
It's likely the same with brake pads. EBC has its own brake testing rigs and test series.
I will definitely fill it out without any hesitation, and I will also inquire again.

Anyone can test themselves and, most importantly, report a positive result.
However, the specific Ravenol WIVLL3 5W30 oil is explicitly mentioned by VAG in their Erwin (siehe Fehlerdatenbank) system.
I don't think it's fully synthetic in the classic sense either.

Hi,

"@teileklaus: If an oil manufacturer wants to obtain a specific approval, they will indicate this, for example, in the case of a VW 50700/50400 specification. VW then conducts corresponding tests and grants the approval if everything is passed, or does not grant the approval if not all requirements are met. Of course, there will also be an explanation regarding which requirement the oil failed to meet."
VW charges a high price for granting approval (just like everyone else). This can lead to situations where an oil is not officially approved, but the oil manufacturer believes that the oil meets the required specifications. In such cases, they may write things like "performance level," "also recommended for," and other similar phrases on the container.
This saves a significant amount of money, which allows the oil to be sold at a lower price. (But it doesn't necessarily ).

As Christians already mentioned, the Racenol WIV LL3 5W-30 oil is specifically approved by Volkswagen. Therefore, it meets the specifications 50700/50400.

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"