Tuning Specs: Same Software?

Hello,

I'd like to revisit Julian's point that a small group of programmers provides the data sets used by most tuning providers.

In fact, many well-known chip tuners offer a standard tuning for the ASZ engine, providing a consistent 385 Nm of torque and 165 horsepower.

Could this be related to a collective "wisdom" among tuners, leading them to overload a 6-speed gearbox, designed for 350 Nm, by "only" 10%?

Regarding the maximum power output (Pmax), the motor hardware, which is 99% identical, also comes from the factory with 150 or 160 horsepower (equivalent to the ARL or BPX engines), so the typical Pmax range for TDI engines, which is around 165 horsepower, is hardly exceeded.
-> In my opinion, the charger is more likely to be the limiting factor here: for example, according to the manufacturer's website (Borg-Warner), the ASZ-Polo charger reaches its performance limit at just 136 horsepower.

385 Nm is also "only" 17% more than the nominal 330 Nm of the BPX; with an assumed average production variation of 7% upwards, even the tuned engine is only overloaded by "only" 10% compared to the average.


Or is it more likely that, in this era of "faster, better, more," some tuners would gladly offer more, but their data suppliers actually understand the constructive reserves of the engines and powertrains, and therefore offer "cheap standard" tuning maps that only slightly overload the hardware (as mentioned above), while individual/more powerful data sets would be too expensive for many tuners to acquire as a special order?


Interestingly, *** starts with a torque of 365 Nm and 155 hp, which is somewhat "more gentle on the hardware," and in my opinion, this speaks in favor of their own software development.
-> Does *** install a copy protection circuit board (as an additional source of potential defects ) in the EDC 15, even though it no longer requires any hardware modifications for tuning, since it is already capable of OBD tuning?

(That last point made me reconsider using ***, because the engine control unit (ECU) is connected to people's lives depending on the situation, and therefore I don't want any unnecessary hardware modifications to the ECU when it comes to tuning.)

Or is it more likely that, in this era of 'faster, better, more,' some tuners would actually like to offer more, but their data suppliers are knowledgeable about the constructive reserves of the engines and powertrains, and therefore offer 'cheap standard' tuning maps that only slightly overload the hardware (as mentioned above), while individual/more powerful data sets would be too expensive for many tuners to acquire as a custom order?


It depends: Some tuners increase the performance with the data sets they offer, while others slightly reduce it (usually the more reputable ones, as they probably want to avoid negative publicity if an engine fails).


Interestingly, *** starts with a torque of 365 Nm and 155 hp, which is somewhat 'more gentle on the hardware,' and in my opinion, this speaks in favor of their own software development.


'Well, recently I checked the data of a turbocharger, which was supposed to have 160 hp and 420 Nm of torque according to the manufacturer. However, VAGcom showed only 350 Nm during a test drive (which, after accounting for the torque reduction, is almost stock), and the standard boost pressure of 1.3 bar was only 1.45 bar. I think that's a bit of a rip-off for the customer.'



-> Does *** install a copy protection circuit board (as an additional source of potential defects ) in the EDC 15, even though it no longer requires any hardware modifications for tuning, since it is already capable of OBD tuning?


'The worst kind of shoddy workmanship! Digitec is another example of a company that glues additional circuit boards into the main system, solders wires (!), and then covers everything with a very hard adhesive that provides a secure, albeit unsightly, attachment. If Gremlin, the expert, were here, he would probably vaporize their entire 'workshop' with a laser-ion cannon because of this.'

'Nowadays, copy protection often consists solely of this adhesive material, making it impossible to remove the chip from the circuit board without damaging it... which is questionable, especially if there are ever problems with the solder joints.'
A skilled tuner removes the old chip using a soldering iron with tweezers (please use only this method!), sets it aside, uses a new, vehicle-specific flashable chip, programs it with their software, and then carefully solders the chip back in. After this, it should not be possible to tell from the engine control unit that a different chip is installed.

Ulf, if you're really interested in CT (chip tuning), I strongly advise you to find a tuner where you can watch the entire chipping process (including installation and removal) without any objections, because otherwise there's a risk that the chips will be soldered poorly or something else might go wrong.

For the EDC15P+ (which is now used in almost all 1.9 engines), a new chip must be soldered in because the old one cannot be flashed. Some tuners also like to 'burn' the data instead of soldering properly (because it's easier), and then they put the old chip back in, but then your original data is gone, and try finding that at VW: 'Um, I'd like a data file for the ASZ engine!' 'What?'

Julian wrote:

Well, recently I checked the output of a turbocharger, which according to the manufacturer should have 160 hp and 420 Nm of torque. However, VAGcom showed only a meager 350 Nm during a test drive (which, after subtracting the LL-Nm, is almost stock) and the standard boost pressure of 1.3 bar was only 1.45 bar. I think that's a bit of a customer rip-off.

Well, perhaps some work was also done on the "pump characteristic curve" (for positive displacement pumps: displacement angle / rpm / flow rate).
In my opinion, this is the simplest CT approach, almost at a 10c level.
While the power consumption display in the area of increased power then follows the moon, the tuner does not need to deal with the interaction of soot, torque limitation, and driver preference .

Quote:

For the EDC15P+ (which is now used in almost all 1.9 engines), a new chip must be soldered in because the old one cannot be flashed. Some tuners also like to "burn" the data instead of soldering properly (because it's easier), and then reinstall the old chip, but then your original data is gone, and good luck finding it at VW: "Um, I'd like a data file for the ASZ engine!" "What?"

Okay, according to the Ibiza forum, quite a few ASZ-Ibiza models have already had their OBD systems modified. And, if I recall correctly, this was done by first backing up the original data.

"For OBD2 tuning, this is also offered for the ASZ Polo. While not specifically targeted, the general description of the process also mentions preserving the original data and the possibility of reprogramming back to the factory software at any time."

And ASZ - Ibi and Polo have EDC15, AFAIK. Does that mean OBD-Tuner software is producing incorrect data?

Julian wrote:

For the EDC15P+ (which is now used in almost all 1.9 engines), a new chip must be soldered in because the old one cannot be flashed.

"Um, I also have the EDC15P+ installed, but mine has a flash memory chip (AM29F400) in it. Are there different versions of it?"

Are there different versions available?

Yes, there are, but the question is, according to what criteria were the flashable components installed? In the audio sector, I haven't come across many flashable components so far, perhaps VW has different purchasing preferences (software matures with the customer ), who knows. My ALH also didn't have any flashable components.

Hi Julian,
The EDC15 family (038 906 012xy; 038 906 019xy) should be almost completely...
equipped with Flash memory and also capable of being flashed (as far as I know, there were very few exceptions with the first models).
Depending on the year of manufacture, it comes with either an F400 or...
F800 deployed.
The ALH still needs an MSA15-7 installed (part number 038 906 018xx); it was...
Not flashable.

Best regards, Rudi.

Hi Julian,
The ALH still needs an MSA15-7 installed (part number 038 906 018xx); it was...
Not flashable.


Normally, there are 2 chips, but I don't have them readily available right now; I need to check at home to see which models they are. They are not flashable.

'The newer ALHs only have one chip (model?), which, as you mentioned, is mostly not flashable.'

The ALH still needs an MSA15-7 installed (part number 038 906 018xx); it was...
Not flashable.

Greetings Rudi.


It's just dependent on the year of manufacture .

My ALH engine has an EDC-15V control unit, specifically part number 038 906 012 H.

CU Gremlin.

Hi Gremlin,
the 012H can also be flashed .

Best regards, Rudi.

Yeah, I know...

but try telling that to all the tuners (including the well-known ones) .

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Cu Gremlin'

Okay, my 2002 ALH is definitely flashable (I've seen it myself).

Hi,
I'm currently (well, since mid-December) rebuilding my computer.
It's possible that I might have overlooked something.

ALH VW and Audi must still have the old MSA15-7 or the very first one.
EDC15 (aluminum die-cast housing) units that could not be flashed via external tools through the OBD port.
Although it has some Flash memory, this is due to the firmware.

Seat and Skoda continued to use the ALH engine for a significantly longer period (possibly until today?).
so that the newer EDC15V models (with aluminum casing) can also be used.
The latter should all be flashable.

Best regards, Rudi.

Quote:

The ALH would still need an MSA15-7 installed (038 906 018xx); it was... Not flashable.

I'm bringing this thread back to the top for a specific reason.

Folgendes Problem: Ich hatte bis vor 4 Wochen einen Golf 4 TDI ALH Bj.03.98 mit der MStg. Nummer 038906018AN. In dem Steuergerät ist eine Software incl. PLCC32 socket.
"Since my TDI has suffered a rear-end collision, I would like to transfer the software to my new ALH engine. The problem is that the engine control unit (ECU) has the part number 038906018AE. According to information from Bosch, the ECUs are compatible with each other, meaning that the software (WFS) from the old ECU could be transferred and installed in the new TDI. My local mechanic charges 100 euros for this service, but there's no guarantee that it will work. As stated on his website: "It usually doesn't work!""
Since both ECUs (presumably "MStg." refers to Electronic Control Units) contain the MSA15-7 module, I'm wondering if I can transfer the data from the AN (presumably "AN Steuergerät" refers to a specific ECU) to the AE (presumably "AE Steuergerät" refers to another specific ECU). Soldering the connectors would only cost me 2 euros, and it would give me the certainty that it would work.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Hello"