New TDI Rumors: What's Coming?

Hello.

Regarding future generations of TDI engines, there seem to be various rumors circulating, including:
http://www.polo9n.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=201

http://www.dk-foren.de/gute-fahrt/showthread.php?s=3f49e4473ce2d1f3910720531c8584a0&threadid=3837

Can our "quasi-insiders" provide some additional information here?

Hi Ulf,

"Neither of the threads contains much useful information. The fact is that all newly registered vehicles from January 1, 2005, must comply with the Euro 4 emissions standard. Therefore, it makes sense to convert the vehicle to the emissions standard beforehand. If a car remains unsold at the dealership for longer, it is also possible to register the car after January 1, 2005."
The PD1.1 components (as used in the AXR engine) are also intended to be integrated into other engines. I'm not sure if these engines, with just those components, would already meet the EU4 emissions standard. I believe further modifications would still be necessary for those engines.
However, I find it unlikely that the "older" engines will be redesigned. The Golf 4 will be discontinued this year and replaced by the Golf 5. All of the Golf 5's TDI engines meet the EU4 standard. Since this is another 827 engine, these engines are likely to be found in other vehicles as well.

By the way, my AXR engine is "only" D4 because it lacks the OBD2 capability. The Golf 4 TDI would need a completely new electronic system to meet EU4 standards – I don't believe that's possible! I'm more inclined to believe it for the new Polo 9N.

Hello Bertil,

Quote:

The PD1.1 components (as in the AXR) are also intended to be integrated into other engines. I am not sure whether these engines, with just these components, already meet the EU4 standard. I think that further modifications will be necessary for these engines. I, however, find it unlikely that the "old" engines will be redesigned.

Which "other engines" will then be left for PD 1.1 ?
As far as I know, the 2.0-liter 4-valve engines require the brand new, smaller piezo injectors... ?

Well, the actual development remains to be seen... VAG is known for occasional surprises, like the current situation with the 2.0 TDIs.
-> I'll just sit back and relax and wait to see the experiences of the involuntary group of testers = first-time buyers .

Does VAG still conduct its own test drives during the development phases?
It's actually ridiculous to pay corporate employees a lot of money for this, especially when there are constantly thousands of people eager to showcase their profiles who are willing to do the job for free, and even pay for their own test cars, just so they can be "up to date" for a few days and drive the latest models.
"Drive" it at least temporarily, until the thing breaks down... and then you get the wonderful experience of not being able to fix it, because the repair manuals aren't available yet .

It's quite amusing that people still have to wait an indefinite amount of time to enter the adventureland.

Hi Ulf,

ulf wrote:

Which "other engines" will then be left for PD 1.1

Good question; that quickly answered your original question.

Quote:

As far as I know, the 2.0-liter 4-valve engines require the brand new, smaller piezo injectors... ?

STOP! These engines currently still use magnet-actuated Bosch PD elements. The piezo PD injectors will not be used in mass production until the end of 2004.

Quote:

Well, the actual development remains to be seen... VAG is known for occasional surprises, like the current situation with the 2.0 TDIs. -> I'll just sit back and relax and wait to see the experiences of the involuntary group of testers = first-time buyers .

Banana politics!

Quote:

Does VAG still conduct its own test drives during the development phases?

That was a long time ago! Even now, employees who are allowed to test a vehicle outside of their working hours have to pay for the fuel. Special test teams then conduct extreme climate tests or other specialized tests.
Suppliers often receive vehicles in which the components are tested, and it's up to those companies how they handle the payment arrangements. As long as the cars have to be hidden, it's impossible to drive them. You'll be treated like a major criminal. The D1 or 611 (now called Phaeton) was specifically locked away in a garage with closed-circuit video surveillance. Only the prototype with the Audi A6 body was allowed to be moved freely.
After the official unveiling, six uncovered Phaetons with license plates from DD, WF, H, and WOB suddenly appeared in the courtyard. A tent was even set up specifically for them. So, if I ever see one of those cars driving around here, I won't worry about it anymore.

Cadillac has apparently scrapped the "Best Bird" project. The GMX320 arrived fully disguised from Frankfurt in a special transporter in the middle of the night. It was camouflaged like it was Carnival time - with a little coat over it! We were supposed to use it for Autobahn testing - a great thing. However, the Americans didn't consider that there are no speed limits in Germany.

BMW always delivers models that are excessively and unattractively stickered.

Hi,

Now that this topic is slowly going off-topic, I'll add another point - please take a look at this:

http://hometown.aol.de/M%20Hoffmann2/BMW.jpg

Source: Auto Bild.

The 'poor' Chris Bangle is often criticized for his bold creations. This time, however, he has outdone himself .

Actually, this is a disguised (who would have guessed?) BMW 1 Series on the Nordschleife circuit.

And then, once again, on the topic of 'no extradition for the 2.0-TDI':
I also often get annoyed and frustrated when I find out about the latest recalls, delivery stops, etc. that have been announced.
However, I find it difficult to attribute any intentionality to VAG, for example, due to a lack of or missing tests.
Every company knows the lasting damage to its reputation that something like this can cause – and the money saved on testing is not worth it! Let's just mention Opel (which, in my opinion, is now regaining its footing).
The problem, as it is everywhere, is the increasing complexity of the products.
With so many involved suppliers, each of whom already needs to develop and deliver increasingly complex components, it's hardly surprising that problems sometimes arise at the beginning of the process.
Sure, I understand. Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English.
A while ago, one of the first new Audi A8 models was at my dealer's lot. It looked great. However, when the dealer told me that the car currently had 38 (!) errors in its memory, I grinned and got back into my Audi 100.
(I won't even begin to talk about cost pressures and vicious cycles of competition, as that discussion is already well-known.)

Bertil wrote:

ulf wrote: Which "other engines" will then be left for PD 1.1 Good question, which quickly answered your original question.

Hi Bertil.

Maybe I'm just a little lost right now...

If the 1.9 engines with 130 and 150 horsepower were to receive PD 1.1, it would, in my opinion, make little sense not to make them OBD-compatible = Euro 4 at the same time.
As mentioned before, the production of Euro 3 compliant vehicles, etc., should gradually be phased out starting around the summer of 2004, so that all remaining units can be sold off relatively safely before January 1, 2005.
Then, from now on (!!), there would be approximately 1 year left in which building the 1.9 version would only be worthwhile with PD 1.1 - are such short build times for engines even common ?

Quote:

Quote: I believe that the 2.0-liter 4-valve engines require the brand new, smaller piezo injectors... ? STOP! These engines currently still have Bosch PD elements that are driven by magnets. The piezo PD injectors will not be used in mass production until the end of 2004.

So, is PD 1.1 not the model series that is (still) used in the 4-valve engines?

ulf wrote:

Maybe I'm a little lost right now... If the 1.9 engines with 130 and 150 horsepower were to receive PD 1.1, it would, in my opinion, make little sense not to make them OBD-compatible = Euro 4 at the same time. As I mentioned earlier, the production of Euro 3-compliant vehicles, etc., should gradually be phased out starting around the summer of 2004, so that we can sell off all remaining stock relatively safely before January 1, 2005. Then, from now on (!!), there would be approximately 1 year left in which building the 1.9 version would only be worthwhile with PD 1.1 - are such short build times for engines even common ?

That's exactly what I meant. VW certainly won't be making engines with such short lifespans. Moreover, the Golf 4 (a model with these engines) is being discontinued, and the successor will get new engines. The new 4-cylinder TDIs should easily fit into the Passat, and I'm also sure they'll fit into the Polo (the AXR is already there). I believe that, at most, the Passat and Polo will only offer the 100 kW 4-cylinder TDI. The engine range for the Polo ends there, while for the Passat, it continues with the 6-cylinder TDI.

The 96 kW and 110 kW TDI engines will be replaced by new engines.

Quote:

So, is PD 1.1 not the series that (still) exists in the 4-valve engines?

However, it currently uses PD1.1, but that's not yet the piezo PD technology; that will be introduced at the end of 2004.

Bertil wrote:

The PD1.1 elements (as in the AXR) are also intended to be integrated into other engines... The 96kw and 110kw TDI engines will be replaced by the new engines.

Hi Bertil.

It seems to me that the "oracle cat" is gradually starting to bite its own tail.

Are the "other engines" listed referring to the 96kW and 110kW TDI engines, which don't necessarily have to be discontinued with the Golf 4, but could be sold in other models, such as those from Seat and Skoda, until the end of 2004 – and potentially even longer if they can be adapted to meet Euro 4 emissions standards?
Specifically, does the replacement of the 96kW and 110kW TDI engines with the new engines initially apply only to the Golf 4 -> 5?

Otherwise, your previous quotes seem contradictory to me, given the short production time you mentioned for a switch to PD 1.1 without Euro 4 compliance.

Hi Ulf,

ulf wrote:

It seems to me that the "oracle cat" is gradually starting to bite its own tail.

That's exactly the problem. I heard both of the statements mentioned above, but with a gap of about a year between them.
Perhaps 1.5 years ago, people were not yet willing to admit that the 4V TDI engine would be available as standard equipment, and they stated that the PD1.1 technology would be integrated into all engines.
Another possibility I see is to make the 96+110kW engines compliant with EU4 standards, but not within the VW lineup, rather with SEAT or SKODA. In that case, both statements would be true, even though they seem to contradict each other.

Quote:

Are the "other engines" listed referring to the 96kW and 110kW TDI engines, which don't necessarily have to be discontinued with the Golf 4, but which could be sold in other models, or with Seat and Skoda, until the end of 2004 – and potentially even longer if they can be adapted to meet Euro 4 emissions standards?

I hadn't even thought about VAG derivatives yet (see above).

Quote:

Specifically, does the replacement of the 96kW and 110kW TDI engines with the new engines initially apply only to the Golf 4 -> 5?

Initially, yes, but likely also to the entire Volkswagen model range in the near future (with or without derivatives?).

Quote:

Otherwise, your above quotes seem to contradict each other, given the short production time you mentioned for a switch to PD 1.1 without Euro 4.

Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.