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TDI regeneriert zu häufig!? Woher kommt der ganze Ruß? (Solution) | Posts 16+

 
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Post05-06-2020, 11:11    Subject: Quote

Boldor wrote:

The intake manifold is tight, I've checked the entire area and managed to achieve a good 1.5 bar of pressure throughout, with no pressure loss or hissing sounds.


What about false air in the rest of the system? Has anything changed after the differential pressure sensor was replaced?
Viele Grüße
Andreas


*** Ein Ingenieur muss vordenken. Wenn er anfängt nachzudenken ist es schon zu spät. ***


Last edited on 05-06-2020, 11:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Post05-06-2020, 11:24    Subject: Quote

Second DDS from Bosch, purchased from a local dealer, delivers the same high values.

Starting this afternoon, everything will be checked systematically again!

I'm starting to suspect that the DPF is the problem.

He regenerates almost constantly during the Fshrt, but the amount of sediment still increases continuously! After driving for 60 km, the DPF lamp now comes on regularly.

If I replace the DPF now, then I will also get a new AGR module at the same time!

It should still last for a while!

Hello
Ralf
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Herbert
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Post05-06-2020, 11:38    Subject: Quote

Have you adjusted the differential pressure sensor?
hg
Herbert
Horch A4 8K CJCD
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Post05-06-2020, 12:13    Subject: Quote

Yes, the DDS is not compatible with the vcds, as the originally installed one had extremely high values. Sometimes, we don't want to face the truth!

Hello
Ralf
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Post05-06-2020, 13:15    Subject: Quote

With high values when the engine is stationary???
hg
Herbert
Horch A4 8K CJCD
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Post05-06-2020, 15:25    Subject: Quote

Boldor wrote:

If I replace the DPF now, then I will also get a new AGR module at the same time!


The AGR valve in this model is very time-consuming to replace because it is located behind the turbocharger, under the spray nozzle. I'm curious to see what you'll report when you exchange it.
Viele Grüße
Andreas


*** Ein Ingenieur muss vordenken. Wenn er anfängt nachzudenken ist es schon zu spät. ***


Last edited on 05-06-2020, 15:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post09-06-2020, 20:05    Subject: Quote

I haven't disappeared into the background; I removed the DPF over the weekend and am now waiting for the new part. The AGR (presumably the Automatic Gearbox/Transmission) has already been replaced by the previous owner. It's from 2017, so I don't want to deal with that! icon_biggrin.gif I found the invoice still in the old documents.
I inspected the old DPF with a simple endoscope camera, and I will do the same with the new one. I will upload the pictures here. And also a short report!
I have, in any case, learned a great deal. As soon as the car is running again, I'll get to work, and I'll share my findings here!

You have definitely helped me a lot here! icon_smile_thumb_up.gif

Greetings
Ralf
Für mich gibt es keine Alternative...
VW Tiguan 5N 2,0 TDI 4Motion mit DSG
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Motorcode: CFGC /Bj.2014

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Post11-06-2020, 10:34    Subject: Quote

Boldor wrote:
I'm not missing, I removed the DPF over the weekend and am now waiting for the new part.


Why did you order a new DPF instead of cleaning the old one? Which DPF did you take? Original VW?
Viele Grüße
Andreas


*** Ein Ingenieur muss vordenken. Wenn er anfängt nachzudenken ist es schon zu spät. ***
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Post14-06-2020, 12:18    Subject: Quote

After the new particle filter and the new differential pressure sensor have been installed and reset, the differential pressure still shows an absurd value (see log "New particle filter at idle") even at a setting of 0, even during idle. The subsequent test drive did not yield any better results. When accelerating uniformly from 80 to 120, the differential pressure was sometimes over 900 hPa.
Since a clanging noise from underneath the car was heard at the beginning of the test drive, I searched for it and could clearly hear a metallic clanging sound when I lightly tapped the SCR-catalytic converter with my hand. The sound seems to be coming from the cat.
To rule out the new particulate filter as the cause of the high differential pressure, I disconnected the flange connecting the particulate filter to the SCR catalyst, so that the exhaust gases could escape directly behind the particulate filter through the resulting gap. The result is clearly conclusive for me! (see Log "SCRKat from DPF removed).
In my opinion, the SCR cat is no longer permeable enough for some reason. The high differential pressure is caused by the accumulated exhaust gases in the exhaust system from the DPF to the SCR cat. With the flange removed, I achieved a differential pressure of 0 hPa in a very short time after stopping the engine. With the SCR cat attached, the differential pressure remains around 30 hPa for a very long time after stopping.
I haven't found any articles on the web about a modified SCR catalyst, but I think I've finally found the solution. I will now replace the SCR catalyst and also replace the NOx sensor at the same time.
If I have correctly understood various publications on the NOX sensor, it also indirectly controls the AGR valve. Maybe that's also the reason for the still unexplained increase in the measured particulate matter in the DPF. It never matches the calculated particulate matter.
What the programmers at VW have come up with in terms of mechanisms and sensors for fuel mixture control is quite complex, and it's difficult to find clear information about it.

Regarding the new DPF, I want to mention that I purchased it from an aftermarket supplier. The original part was simply not worth the cost to me. At least, I acquired it from a reputable dealer, rather than an auction house. icon_biggrin.gif


Greetings
Ralf



LOG-01-SCRKat vom DPF gelöst.CSV
 Description:
 

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 File name:  LOG-01-SCRKat vom DPF gelöst.CSV
 File size:  99.8 KB
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LOG-01-Neuer Partikelfilter im Leerlauf.CSV
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 File name:  LOG-01-Neuer Partikelfilter im Leerlauf.CSV
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Für mich gibt es keine Alternative...
VW Tiguan 5N 2,0 TDI 4Motion mit DSG
(125TKM)
Motorcode: CFGC /Bj.2014

VW Sharan 7N 2.0 TDI mit DSG
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Motorcode: CFFB /Bj. 2014
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Post14-06-2020, 15:14    Subject: Quote

Thank you for the feedback! What I have heard in the past is about tilted and shattered catalytic converter ceramics that were rotating within the metal housing, or where ceramic fragments were clogging everything. Possibly, something similar has occurred here.

Best regards, Rainer
Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Rainer Kaufmann - dieselschrauber VCDS Shop


Last edited on 14-06-2020, 15:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post15-06-2020, 21:09    Subject: Quote

dieselschrauber wrote:
Thank you for the feedback! What I have heard about in the past are tilted and shattered catalytic ceramics that were rotating within the metal housing, or ceramic fragments that were clogging everything. Possibly, something similar has occurred here.

Best regards, Rainer


No problem! Feedback is the most important thing to me!
The next one won't have to search so long if a similar fate befalls him! icon_cool.gif

I will continue to provide updates...

Greetings
Ralf
Für mich gibt es keine Alternative...
VW Tiguan 5N 2,0 TDI 4Motion mit DSG
(125TKM)
Motorcode: CFGC /Bj.2014

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Post21-06-2020, 16:45    Subject: Problem solved/Summary Quote

It took some time, but the problem is solved! The patient is walking again! icon_smile_thumb_up.gif
But I don't want to end this topic without a summary, as it would certainly be helpful for those who have experienced something similar! icon_smile.gif

After I've been dealing with the particulate filter issue, extremely increasing soot buildup, continuous regenerations, and exorbitant differential pressures on the DPF for quite some time, everything is now back to normal.
No debugging without learning, I'm now smarter!
Not always is the particulate filter the culprit, if regeneration is triggered too frequently. The differential pressure sensor actually only measures the counter-pressure in the entire exhaust system. The control unit assigns a soot loading value to the differential pressure and initiates one of the three DPF regenerations depending on the resulting soot mass.
First, the field regeneration:

This is initiated when the soot mass reaches 22.53g. If the vehicle is switched off in between, the regeneration process is immediately initiated upon each restart. By increasing the fuel input, high exhaust temperatures are generated within a few meters/minutes, allowing the soot to burn.
If you frequently shut down the engine during short-distance operation, you will quickly encounter the problem that the next regeneration phase will be reached.
Secondly, service regeneration:

This is introduced with 40g of soot mass. If this is done too often, the DPF light will come on and instruct the driver to perform a regeneration cycle according to the manual.

As the third option: Forced Regeneration:
If the soot mass exceeds 50g, the DPF is considered overloaded. The control unit will no longer initiate a regeneration, and the only solution is to use VCDS and have a fire extinguisher nearby.

In my case, I assumed that the DPF was simply full and worn out after 200,000 km. Therefore, it was replaced with a new part. However, the subsequent test drive unfortunately did not show any better soot loading values. Within 10 minutes of driving at moderate speed, the loading increased from 6.96g to 24.90g. The field regeneration was initiated, but the soot loading values still increased dramatically. This, of course, also resulted in higher exhaust gas temperatures due to the after-injection activated by the control unit. The amount of soot removed was not proportional to the amount of soot added, therefore, I would have seen the DPF light again in no time with the new DPF.

By the way, the engine has not produced excessive smoke in any driving situation, and the high differential pressure has only given the control unit a false impression of excessive soot buildup, and also me! icon_wink.gif

Because I didn't believe that the new particulate filter was already clogged, I disconnected the subsequent SCR-cat from the DPF. And the result was clear: the pressure differential was within normal ranges.
Only at this stage did I hear the SCR-cat chime, as if the ceramic inside was loose within the casing.
After the expansion, it became clear. The attached image shows what I encountered.


I have found a company that also offers pre-fabricated SCR catalysts, and I have found one that is suitable for my needs. A new part was also not an option here, as I prefer repairs that are cost-effective.
A phone call with the boss was very helpful, as he was able to explain the background of the defective ceramic to me. His statements are convincing to me, and I am sharing them here without any expectation of scientific verification.

"The injected AdBlue can crystallize in certain operating conditions and thus settle into the cavities of the ceramic parts. There, the crystals act like small files under the exhaust pressure, which can damage the ceramic over time." "The mileage of your 200Tkm engine is already at the limit for the SCR catalyst!"

In light of the EA189 emissions issues and the corresponding software changes, it appears to be a complete solution. The amount of AdBlue injected was approximately doubled by VW, without any changes to the hardware.

After I had already invested 1300 euros for the DPF and the SCR-catalyst, the values are now back in the normal range, and the car is running properly.

The soot mass increases by 8g per hour of driving time over 100 kilometers in urban and suburban traffic, which, in my opinion, is a reasonable value that I can easily live with. A corresponding log will be attached.

Note… High differential pressure values are not always caused by a faulty DPF! The entire exhaust system should be checked for proper flow, as a precaution.

Greetings
Ralf



alter und neuer scr 1.jpg
 Description:
 Neuer SCR musste leider noch mit dem alten Abgasrohr verschweisst werden, wird leider nur "halb" geliefert!
 File size:  3.62 MB
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alter und neuer scr 1.jpg


Defekte Keramik.jpg
 Description:
 Kermikkrümmel aus dem SCR-Kat
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 Viewed:  843 times

Defekte Keramik.jpg


LOG-Sharan DPFund SCR neu.CSV
 Description:
 

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 File name:  LOG-Sharan DPFund SCR neu.CSV
 File size:  480.05 KB
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Für mich gibt es keine Alternative...
VW Tiguan 5N 2,0 TDI 4Motion mit DSG
(125TKM)
Motorcode: CFGC /Bj.2014

VW Sharan 7N 2.0 TDI mit DSG
(254TKM)
Motorcode: CFFB /Bj. 2014


Last edited on 21-06-2020, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Herbert
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Post21-06-2020, 21:01    Subject: Quote

Thank you for the feedback and the report! icon_smile_thumb_up.gif
We will probably need to pay more attention to the SCR Kat as a cork.
hg
Herbert
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ursula



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Post02-01-2023, 1:20    Subject: Duration Regeneration / TDI regenerates too frequently? Quote

Hi Boldor,
Thank you for your report on the "continuous regeneration" of the EA183. Not often found such a clear and comprehensive report/feedback.
I have been searching for 2 days: Why and how: Continuous regeneration!
Thought the DPF was the problem because the differential pressure was too high and was already planning to order one.
Then I fell over your entry with the final report, which I analyzed very carefully. See, the same thing happened to me. KAT malfunction and also, as with you, the reasoning makes sense after the initial thought.
Thank you for your report - it was very helpful!
LG Ursula
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