Start subsidy, model 1Z, year of manufacture 1996

Hello,

After an engine failure, I, together with a friend, installed a new engine in my Golf III TDI. The new engine is exactly the same: old against the direction of the motor's rotation!

Am I completely wrong about something if I'm using the dial indicator method?

The AHU repair manual does not mention a measuring instrument.
If I understand correctly, the injection start is precisely set to cylinder 1 at top dead center (TDC) using the timing light, correct? How is this done with an AHU engine, or without a timing light?

I've already found the following post on that topic:

/viewtopic.php?t=5385&view=next

Hello Kai, even if you align the mark, the injection timing is incorrect because the mark on the pump rotor doesn't align with the pump itself when the injection timing is correct and the engine is at the top dead center (TDC) of the first cylinder.
The marking is only there so you know that the pump is located on the first cylinder.
Turn the ESP rotor manually in the direction of rotation. You'll feel some resistance, then turn it another 0.4 mm. In that position, tighten the camshaft wheel. This should allow the engine to start running.
Dann kannst Du die Pumpe dynamisch prüfen und einstellen.

Can I do the same thing to my engine as Mersente describes?
I want to make sure that I can start the engine safely and bring it up to operating temperature.


Best regards,

ATTENTION

The thread you quoted is an AEL thread - that's a completely different engine (2.5 5-cylinder).

The 1Z and AHU engines are the same – the only difference is that the 1Z engine from 1992 still had a resistance-based ESP (Electronic Stability Program), while from 1994 onwards, it received the HDK pump. However, the adjustment process should be the same.

- Does the car start?
- Do you have VAG-COM?

-> Initialize it, measure it using VAG-COM in block 000, and adjust accordingly.

m;

hi,

Okay, so: 1. Set the first cylinder to Top Dead Center (TDC). Then, rotate it counter to the engine's rotation until the indicator stops moving. Set the measuring gauge to 'zero,' rotate the engine in its normal direction until it reaches TDC, and then read the value. For the first cylinder, it should be approximately 0.7 mm, plus or minus 0.02 mm. If it's not, loosen the pump and readjust it.

If your timing light isn't moving at all, then either the engine wasn't at top dead center (TDC) for cylinder 1, or the timing light wasn't plugged in far enough into the distributor.

While your method using a gauge is good for making a basic adjustment, a precise adjustment is made dynamically and is the accurate one!
If you would like to learn about the risks and side effects of the 'Messuhr' method, please search for 'Haehnlein's mega cold start thread' here.


edit: oops, dieselmartin was faster...

@dieselmartin
Yes, I have VAG-COM.
I haven't dared to start the engine yet.

@joergs
We have restarted the watch and the adapter several times, but there has been no change.
Even when swinging the pump, the needle only moved a minimal amount.



I was wondering if the dial indicator method might not work for me, since I have the AHU version (as per the 94 standard). This is supported by the fact that the repair manual for the AHU doesn't mention a dial indicator.
Here it says that the injection pump rotor should be tightened in the position where the locating pin fits... then the timing belt is installed... to me, it sounds like that automatically puts it in the correct position (for the subsequent dynamic test with the engine running).
Could that be possible?

No!

Was the timing of the first cylinder at top dead center (TDC)? Did you install the dial indicator with at least 3mm of pre-tension and lock it in place?

imo, it doesn't matter whether you have a 1Z, an AHU, or any other type of VP37 TDI. The static adjustment should work on all VP37 TDIs. Similarly, the injection timing should be dynamically controlled on all engines with a VP37.

It's the mechanical TDIs that make the difference, though. You can only adjust those mechanically!

I don't quite understand your problem. If the ESP wasn't removed and the engine was running before your modification, why are you worried? If the position relative to the crankshaft is correct, and the position of the camshaft is also correct, and nothing got twisted when tightening the timing belt, then the engine should start. After it starts, let it warm up and then dynamically check it with VAG-COM!

If you don't trust this, you can use the settings from my first answer. It worked on a 1Z and also on an AFN... but afterwards, make sure to at least monitor the dynamic settings!

The fuel injection pump was removed; it was from my old engine.
There wasn't much to the new thing.

So, it must have been because we didn't insert the measuring instrument correctly. I'll double-check that.

But why does it work with the AHU without a pressure gauge, even when the pump was removed?

AHU ESP Installation according to the repair manual:
--...
--Use ESP in the console, attach the screw to the rear support.
--Align the ESP (Electrical Submersible Pump) in the middle of the long boreholes and tighten the screws by hand.
Install the ESP wheel and secure it with a locking pin.
Tighten the mounting nut.
--Loosen the fastening screw of the NW wheel by 1/2 revolution.
--Remove the thorn from the rear timing cover and detach the northwest wheel from the northwest side.
--Place the timing belt on the ESP wheel and tensioner pulley.
--Attach the rear wheel to the timing belt in such a way that it can still rotate.
--Install the pulley.
--Removing a thorn from an ESP wheel.
--Tighten the timing belt on the eccentric until the markings align.
Tighten the mounting nut.
--re-check the OT marking.
Tighten the mounting screw for the rear wheel.
--Remove the setting gauge.
--...
Can someone explain to me how the start of the subsidy is configured here?

Sure, here's the translation:

'Again!'
The ignition timing is dynamically adjusted and controlled for all electronic TDI engines.

The static workaround originates from the older diesel and turbodiesel engines, as well as the mechanically controlled TDIs. In those cases, it was the only option because the electronics weren't involved. The mechanical design of the ESPs is fundamentally similar and related, which is why it's also possible with the electronic TDIs, although it's not precise. The injection/fuel start is, among other things, dependent on the condition of the springs in the injector holder assembly. Therefore, the actual injection/fuel start required can deviate significantly from the static setting (see Hähnlein's cold start thread). And you can only achieve the actual start with sufficient accuracy through dynamic adjustment.

What you're describing is the installation of the ESP (Electronic Stability Program). If you delve deeper into your service manuals, you'll definitely find a section describing the control and adjustment of the injection/fuel delivery start. I subscribed to Erwin (siehe Fehlerdatenbank) for the 1Z model. Like in the 'Merry Midnight Screws' books, it had separate chapters (ESP installation and adjustment...).

If you're absolutely sure you didn't assemble anything incorrectly, then I don't understand any of this.

I don't understand anything anymore.
I'm not sure if I did anything wrong, did it come across that way?

To clarify my general understanding, is this correct:
*My theory begins here.*
When I turn the injection pump, I should be able to find the start of fuel delivery using a dial indicator, regardless of whether the crankshaft is at Top Dead Center (TDC) or not. Why shouldn't the dial indicator move if the first cylinder is not at TDC? Shouldn't the dial indicator also show some movement when turning the pump while it's removed from the engine?
*my theory ends here*

The AHU repair manual doesn't mention a measuring gauge at all! (If it does, it should be somewhere in section 23, right?). Immediately after the installation described above, the heading 'dynamic testing and adjustment' appears, but the pump needs to be roughly adjusted first so that the motor can start.


Everyone else, including the mechanics who work on my friend's car, claims that the timing must be adjusted using a workshop-specific tester and not with a timing light, which means it requires professional shop work.

'Then I said that the VAG-COM is a workshop diagnostic tool, and therefore the task could also be done at home. Now, the master mechanic will come and take a look at it himself on Saturday.'

I'm sorry if I'm questioning you, but are you absolutely sure about that?

Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate.

Yes, yes, I practically know the instructions by heart now.

If I understand correctly, the engine needs to be running for this setting to work, but I'm not even that far yet.

Apparently, I have the second option, which is 'adjusting the pump via the pump mounting bracket.'
I still don't understand how I'm supposed to get to that initial, rough setting that I need to start the engine, so I can then check the dynamic injection timing.

okay, one more time:

If you really want and need to use the mileage counter, then proceed as I described above! This method is tested and officially approved. Simply trying to lock the mileage counter in some way and then turning it somewhere is counterproductive and won't get you anywhere. If you don't trust yourself, then have the car fixed in a workshop.

edit: You need to adjust the crankshaft (kw) to find the timing mark, not the pump. Then, once you're back at top dead center (OT), you can adjust the pump to achieve your desired 0.7mm offset!

Since everything has now been said and there are enough facts to be found in the forum, I am now closing this thread.