Chipped Log Groups 08 & 10 - ASZ

Okay, I finally got to check the power output of my little car - and instead of the expected 165 horsepower, I got a reading of about 155 horsepower, not a huge difference...

The surprise came with the LMM (air mass meter) values and the turbocharger limit: The measured air mass (with the EGR temporarily closed!) ranges from 410 mg/R at idle to just under 1200 mg/R - which seems a bit low to me for a chipped turbocharger (maximum boost pressure of 2600 mbar instead of 2300 mbar).

The Russian limit is the lowest limit across the entire RPM range and, accordingly, determines the fuel injection amount. However, I don't believe that being limited by the Russian limit is harmful to the engine in any way. Could it be that my tuner was aware of this and intentionally set it up this way?

My questions:
- The torque limit (yellow line) seems quite simple and is clearly above the Russian limit starting at 2900 RPM. Does it look similar for engines that haven't been chipped or have been chipped differently?

A thread with target log values for MWB 08 & 10 for the various engines would be very useful here, so here's mine to get started - even if it looks a bit strange.

Does anyone have a chipped ASZ engine? What are the mass airflow (MAF) values like? What is the rev limiter set to? Because the 410 mg/stroke value seems plausible at idle, but the value seems a bit too low under load. Nevertheless, I hope that by increasing the MAF, I can at least partially raise the rev limiter (1800 - 2200 RPM) above the torque limiter.

- Could it be that the LMM is already broken after 3 years? That's a good outlook, having to replace it repeatedly. }

- Checking for carbon buildup in the intake manifold after the EGR seems a bit too complicated to me... And there would have to be a significant amount of carbon buildup to actually hinder forced ventilation.

Edit Link:
ZIP (Save target as) (Hopefully this works - it's really tedious to find free webspace somewhere on the internet ).

1) The link is not working.

2) The idle speed is completely irrelevant if you're running at 1200 RPM under full load; that's more than enough.

The Russian limit is the lowest limit across the entire RPM range and, accordingly, determines the injection amount. However, I don't think it's harmful to the engine in any way to be limited by the Russian limit. Could it be that my tuner was aware of this?


It's a completely normal tuning practice to limit the engine's power by manipulating the timing. Whether that's elegant or not is debatable.
The reason is simple: you're always operating at the soot limit and utilizing the available air completely (theoretically). Another reason is that, in a tuning setup where you want to extract everything possible, it's not ideal to limit torque too much, because the torque limit has a higher priority than the opacity (smoke) limit. Controlling opacity is a gentler approach.

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a completely normal tuning practice

Thank you for the confirmation and the quick response.

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if you're running at 1200 under full load, that's more than enough

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.. I disagree with that. If I'm already getting 1250 with a boost pressure of 1.3 bar, then with 1.6 bar, a larger mass of air should be forced into the cylinders. Otherwise, increasing the boost pressure seems completely unnecessary.


By the way, I've now uploaded my Excel file to another location - hopefully, it works this time.

Beany wrote:

The surprise came with the LMM (measured air mass) values and the soot limit: The measured air mass (with the EGR temporarily closed!) ranges from 410 mg/R at idle, to just under 1200 mg/R - which seems a bit low to me for a chipped turbocharger (maximum boost pressure of 2600 mbar instead of 2300 mbar)

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I'm going to the same area, but with 2.45 bar of pressure at 2500 rpm, and the outside temperature is around 10°C.
At what RPM (and especially at idle) do you reach 1200?

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- The torque limit (yellow line) seems quite simple and is clearly above the Russian limit starting at 2900 RPM.

Does it look similar on unchipped or other chipped engines?

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Without tuning, the engine's torque should be at its lowest point when the accelerator is fully pressed. "With my car, the tuning data is also configured in a way that prevents the engine power from being affected by weather conditions, and to ensure that the clutch doesn't slip in extremely cold temperatures." Other tuners simply extract everything possible from the available air mass -> Peter's response. I'd be interested to know what lambda value your tuner specifies for operation in hazy conditions. You need to log values such as 08 and 10, save the entire file as a .xls file, and then add a calculation column with the formula "Air Mass / Soot Limit / 14.5". If this results in LD values below 1.1, especially in passages with full load, then your tuned car is likely contributing to the "dirty burner" image associated with diesel engines. "Over 1.2 would be great, but you won't get much more performance out of the weak stock LED lighting. Also, your tuner might have adjusted the pump duration, making it practically impossible to calculate the optimal settings."

Does anyone have a chipped ASZ engine? What are the MAF sensor values like? What is the speed limiter set to?

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1200 or 68 mg at 2000-2500 rpm, decreasing to approximately 1000 or 61 mg at 4000 rpm, and 2.4 - 2.45 bar. - Could it be that the mass airflow sensor is already broken after 3 years? That's a great prospect, having to replace it repeatedly.

}
Depending on the LMM generation, yes... if a replacement is needed, try to get one from the most recent compatible production series, as they are supposed to last longer.

I disagree - if I should already have 1250 with a pressure of 1.3 bar, then with 1.6 bar

Sorry, I made a mistake with the values.

..The log file, in Excel format, is in the second post or here. (Save as). (In the chart, you can see everything very clearly).

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You must, for example, log the values 08 and 10, save the entire file as a .xls file, and then add a calculation column with the formula "Air Mass / Soot Limit / 14.5"

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..That gives me a lambda value between 1.3 and 1.1 - so my little one is definitely not part of the "smoker" group .

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1200 or 68 mg at 2000 - 2500 rpm, decreasing to approximately 1000 or 61 mg at 4000 rpm, and 2.4 - 2.45 bar.

"My setup is (almost) the same - except I'm running a slightly higher boost pressure of 0.2 bar, which should theoretically result in a higher air mass and a higher knock threshold... But it's not. The question remains whether 1.6 bar (with a peak of 2700 mbar) is already pushing the turbocharger close to its maximum safe operating speed."

I think you're right about the outside temperature. When I took the measurement, it was almost 30°C at 948 millibars, so the intake air temperature was likely around 65° to 70°C – which could explain the relatively low manifold pressure for that boost pressure. Here's a small calculation:

m = p1*V/(R*T1) = p2*V/(R*T2) -> p2 = p1*(T2/T1)
-> dp = 343/313 = 110%

This means that if the intake air temperature increases from 40°C to 70°C, you would need to increase the boost pressure by 10% to achieve the same engine power output. This could explain a significant portion of my discrepancy (I should probably consider an intake air cooler tuning, as I seem to be consistently exceeding the safe boost pressure limits).

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...did your tuner perhaps adjust the fuel injection duration setting...?

I don't understand anything... I thought the amount of fuel injected was directly related to the injection duration, and even that the amount of fuel injected was only controlled by the injection duration?

Mine looks (almost) the same - except that I run a slightly higher boost pressure, about 0.2 bar higher - which should theoretically result in a correspondingly higher air mass and a higher knock threshold... But it doesn't.

I don't quite understand what you mean by 'lmm.' What are you trying to say?

for clarification:

If it's not programmed that way, you won't be rewarded.

'Who is the manufacturer of the chip? If I know that, I might be able to tell you what was done to it.'

Beany wrote:

Quote: ...did your tuner perhaps adjust the parameter related to the injection duration...?

I don't understand anything... I thought the amount of fuel injected was directly related to the injection duration, and even that the amount of fuel injected was only controlled by the injection duration?}
First, in your case, the maximum amount is determined based on the turbidity.

Then, there's essentially a characteristic curve that defines the relationship between the amount of material conveyed and the conveying time, depending on the speed.

To increase the actual amount, there are now 2 options:

1. Higher quantities (at the same air mass) are recorded as turbidity.

"For example, one might define that in the drying process, the maximum kiln temperature should not exceed 24°C for a duration of 60 minutes, but instead be set to 28°C (these values are arbitrary, and this would raise the overall kiln temperature). This is what I meant with the quote mentioned above."

Now then, thank you very much for the feedback. It's reassuring to know that my tuner seems to have done a good job .
I will try replacing the mass airflow sensor (MAF) when I have some time, repeat the measurements at lower temperatures, and see if I can then achieve the expected performance.
I also wanted to expand and verschandeln my AGR (agricultural land) sometime, but that will take a while. LLK (Landwirtschaftliche Nutzungsklassifizierung) tuning seems too complicated for me.

@SynchroPeter

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for clarification: If it is not programmed that way, then you will not be rewarded.

"I think so. I was under the impression that the fuel map determines the maximum injection amount based on engine speed and the measured load. So, in my case (until I reach the maximum engine speed), at full load: the higher the load, the more fuel it injects."

PS: What kind of wild off-road adventures do you go on with your Synchro?

The larger the LM, the more fuel it pumps in.

Up to a certain programmed maximum value (amount), and when that limit is reached, the process stops.

peter

I drive my Syncro pretty much everywhere.