Russian Power at 115cc!

The following problem:
Here's a translation of the German text into English, preserving the original markers:

'With a Golf IV TDI 115 hp that has been chip-tuned by ***, the following problem arises: The car is making a very loud noise, not the usual diesel noise that is normal after chip tuning. No, it's so loud that when you drive behind it, you almost have to turn on the windshield wipers !!! Everything has been checked, including the air filter and fuel injectors!!! Is there perhaps a way to reduce the fuel injection amount on the PD system? Maybe using VAG COM? With the older models like the 110 hp version, you could still adjust the fuel injection pump directly, but that's unfortunately no longer possible with the PD systems ?'
Any suggestions?

Hi!

When you reduce the injection amount, you're doing the opposite of what the chip does. So, that's nonsense. Based on how you're describing the problem, there should be an error code stored in the system's memory.
"When did this noise start? Since the chip tuning? What's your fuel consumption like? How are the driving performance? Have you checked the intake path? If there's a larger hole (like a disconnected hose), it will make a significant noise."
Can you install the original chip to rule out the "chip" as the source of the problem?
I have a 115 HP PD engine with a chip, and it hardly produces any smoke!

Best regards,
Uwe

No, the performance is absolutely okay!
The engine's fault memory was read, the air filter was checked, and the fuel injectors, including the intake path, are also okay. It is not possible to reset the chip tuning because it is not an add-on module. The engine control unit's mapping was modified by ***. Now, the goal is to potentially reduce the soot emissions. It is clear that this would result in a loss of power. The fuel consumption is currently around 12 liters per 100 km. The only desire is to reduce the soot emissions, and a decrease in power is not as critical. Therefore, a method is being sought to reduce the fuel injection amount.

Hi!

The right approach would be to find the actual cause of the problem. You've installed a chip that increases performance, which, by the way, also increases the fuel injection volume. If you now find ways to reduce the fuel injection volume, you're only addressing the symptoms. Even with chipped TDIs, fuel consumption doesn't usually increase significantly. 12 liters is far too high; I would be very cautious with the engine. Normal values are around 6 liters.
Normally, when "chipping" a car, a different chip is soldered into the engine control unit. Good tuners install a connector to make it easier to switch back to the original chip later. It might also be possible for you to revert to the original chip for testing purposes. I suspect the problem lies with the chip, because if your fuel consumption is that far off, the engine control unit should detect it and react (e.g., by reducing fuel injection or entering a limp mode). A diagnosis is certainly easier with the original chip installed.

Best regards,
Uwe

Hi,

Regarding fuel consumption, I agree with Uwe – it's FAR too much. My car consumes about 12 liters per 100 kilometers at full speed on the highway, according to the MFA, but that's not acceptable for average consumption.

How is the car driven? Is it always driven at full speed, or in a normal way?

Otherwise, check along the pressure hoses for oil-stained areas, as this is a clear indication of leaks. Pay particular attention to the low-pressure cooler (LLK) and the areas where the pipes connect to it.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi!

Since when exactly have you been experiencing these symptoms? Since the chipping, or later? Did they appear suddenly, or have they been gradually getting worse?

Best regards,
Uwe

'The fuel consumption is definitely not normal!!! The car is emitting a lot of smoke, especially under full throttle, which is understandable, but the amount of smoke is so extreme that it's really too much. The symptoms started after the chip tuning!!! The car had no problems before!!! When you ask *** about it, they just say: 'It's normal!!!'. It is normal, but not *that* bad!!!'

Okay, so that's the cause! I'm not familiar with the company ***, and I don't want to drag them into this. Maybe they accidentally installed a wrong or faulty chip for you. Either way, it's not working.
Working chips will turn your Golf into a ground-hugging rocket. Any speeding tickets you receive will likely come from the aviation authorities rather than the local police. Good chip tuners can provide over 140 horsepower for the PD engine, and 350 Nm of torque is a standard class level, and all of this with the PD engine without significant exhaust smoke! Our A4 consumes a maximum of 6.0 liters of fuel with very fast driving (excluding highways and speeds above 180 km/h). I believe *** can do the same, otherwise they wouldn't be in business. I would inquire further about this. If they can't handle it, don't panic - if you want power, you can find it elsewhere with proper tuning.

Best regards,
Uwe

"I'm sorry, but I have to chime in here. I drive an AFN (VP37) with a chip, but I only get a 6-liter fuel consumption if I'm driving incredibly slowly, like my grandfather used to! Since I installed the chip, it's become even more unrealistic. When I'm on the highway and mostly driving at full throttle, I get a fuel consumption of about 10-12 liters, which is perfectly normal, because the power has to come from somewhere! It only produces soot under full load, but then it's quite a bit. And why shouldn't it consume 12 liters in the city with proper driving? My boost pressure is set to exactly 1.145 bar, which isn't much! So, the only sensible alternative to limit soot emissions would be to increase the boost pressure! That would have the pleasant side effect of giving it even more power! If you can, please remove your chips and send me the files, and I can take a look to see if there's anything I can do."
Sure, here's the translation:

"gruzz mozz"

Unfortunately, I cannot read the engine control unit (ECU). I only have an OBD2 scanner and VAG COM. Can I make any changes to the fuel map with this hardware? (I highly doubt it ).

Hi mozz!

It's been a long time since we discussed fuel consumption in this forum, as it's generally understood that our 1.9 TDI engines really do consume around 6 liters per 100 kilometers, and not more.
After sensible chip tuning, fuel consumption often even decreases slightly, while still providing excellent performance as described above. At top speed, you might reach around 10 liters per 100 kilometers, but to get an accurate measurement, you would need about 500 kilometers of open highway with a full tank. The MFA (Multi-Function Display) might occasionally show 12, but that is never achievable in everyday driving.
If the fuel consumption increases significantly, the tuning has not been performed effectively. With proper tuning, it is even possible to race and win (www.team-dose.de, the Golf IV and the A3 only have chip tuning and run on biodiesel!) and, incidentally, they don't produce excessive smoke.
"12 liters per 100 kilometers is definitely not right, even considering city driving and large tires."

Best regards,
Uwe

Uwe wrote:

...It has been a long time since we discussed fuel consumption in this forum, as it is generally understood that our 1.9 TDI engines REALLY need around 6 liters and no more. ...

Okay, my 1Z now also consumed 9 liters per 100km, but it was pulling a Dutch trailer (1000kg). It should be clear what that means for the Cd (drag coefficient) value. Due to the weight (~2700kg), the driving conditions are very similar to a full-throttle run, even when the car is empty.

Quote:

"At 12 liters per 100 kilometers, something is definitely not right, even considering city driving and large tires."

...I see it that way too...
That's roughly double what TDIs typically require. Since the energy content of a liter of diesel is always constant, you either have double the power output or the efficiency of your engine has been severely reduced.
I would definitely think about the consumption in that case...

By the way, under normal driving conditions, I get 5.9 liters per 100 kilometers, and that's not on the highway, but on rather winding roads in the foothills (which are barely roads), and I'm not exactly driving slowly.

I'm getting a consumption of about 10-12 liters, which is perfectly normal, I would say, because the power has to come from somewhere!! It only 'rushes' under full load, but then it's quite noticeable. And why shouldn't it also consume 12 liters in the city with proper driving style??

Sure, the car needs a lot of fuel. Half of it just comes out the back, unburned. That's what 'Russ' means: unburned fuel, it's quite simple.

The tuning, as it is, is not good because it's not optimal!

'Can you explain where the 70% increase in power consumption comes from? Do you also have 70% more power output? If not, the efficiency has become extremely poor...'

CU Gremlin.

Okay, I have a Powerbox from PSI, and my A4 Avant Quattro (81 kW) also produces a lot of smoke under full load. But a fuel consumption of 12 liters is very, very high. For me, the average consumption (with air conditioning) was around 7.5 liters without a chip, and 7.8 to 8.5 liters with a chip. I would suggest you go back to *** and have them check the chip.

Best, Chriss.

Hi Mozz,

due to consumption:

If I drive very aggressively in the city, accelerating hard at every intersection to the point where the traction control almost engages, and revving the engine up to 3000 or 3500 RPM, I might get around 6.5 to 7 liters per 100 kilometers. I haven't tried that in a long time. If I drive more sportily, enjoying the acceleration from time to time, I'll get around 6 liters, maybe a little more. And if I drive economically, with occasional bursts of acceleration due to traffic, I'll get 5...5.5 liters. And all of this in real city traffic... I think everyone accepts the traffic in Berlin as "typical" city driving.

I don't have a PBox, but it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because the limits are simply set by the physics. In the first two gears, the wheels are already very close to the point where they would start to spin, and you wouldn't normally drive much faster than 2000 RPM in 3rd or 1000 RPM in 5th gear (so, around 50 mph), especially in a city. Therefore, you might only be able to use the extra power of the PBox about 5% of the time, or even less – but it shouldn't double the fuel consumption.

Good TDI tuning is such that, with the exact same driving style (gears, acceleration), it consumes the same amount of fuel as without tuning. In reality, it often consumes less fuel because you can often drive in a higher gear than you could without tuning.

Therefore, there's likely something broken in the cars that people are getting 12 liters per in the city, or the drivers are just into "burn-outs."

Best regards,

Jan.

Ich fahre den Corrado mit AFN lt. MFA mit 5,5 l - nachgemessen echte 5,7 Litern. Ich habe die MFA 2500 km nicht resettet. Auch auf meinem Weg zur Arbit (70 km) habe ich etwa immer 5,3 - 5,5 auf der MFA stehen. Fahren tue ich selten zügig. Meistens Landstrasse 90 oder Autobahn 160. Aber auch ab und an Vollgas (>220 lt. (Speedometer).

The fuel consumption was approximately 0.5 liters higher before the chip was installed.

And please don't say that this isn't true or that it's nonsense...

Regards,
Arne.