Overview of Pump Nozzle Elements

Hello everyone,
Could you please compile a list in this thread of which injector nozzles were used in the 4-cylinder TDIs?
It would also be helpful if you could indicate which part numbers have been replaced and why (e.g., material defect, durability, acoustic behavior, burst pressure, load capacity, hole size...).
Furthermore, it would be helpful to learn some tips on cleaning and inspecting used or salvaged PDE (presumably referring to a specific type of equipment or component).
I was quite surprised when I inquired with VW about the cost of having the ignition timing checked and a spray pattern analysis performed.
Answer: Nothing, it's not possible. I checked with Bosch and got the same answer. It's already surprising that you can't move a high-pressure fuel pump (PDE) even a millimeter with bare hands, but for a part that costs 500 euros, I would have expected there to be testing equipment available for it. Well, typical Volkswagen...

Hi,

You will have to build the testing apparatus yourself.
How about a lathe and a PD camshaft?

Best regards, Rainer.

Yes, I had also considered something like an old cylinder head with an electric motor, driven by the camshaft gear.
But why doesn't anyone have a testing facility for this? It can't be true, especially considering the prices of spare parts.

Zak1976 wrote:

...Well, typical VOLKSWAGEN...

What on earth does Volkswagen have to do with products from BOSCH?
You could also ask DC if they can test the CR injectors from Bosch there. They can't do that either!
There are suitable testing facilities available for both PDE and CR injectors. However, these facilities are quite complex and require a significant amount of control electronics, which makes them relatively expensive. For such a testing setup, you can easily build a complete workshop (costing a three-digit euro amount).
PDEs are maintained and repaired under industrial conditions, close to the manufacturing environment.

That's just the way things are today. With the increased use of electronics, testing individual components outside of the vehicle requires a significant amount of resources. This is also the case when testing CR (common rail) and PD (piezo) injectors. Simply pressing a button like the good old VP injectors used to do is no longer possible.

I didn't intend to offend anyone personally. I just don't understand why there isn't a testing facility for these expensive and, unfortunately, fragile parts. I can't imagine that setting up a testing facility would be that extremely complex. At the very least, VW should be able to inspect these components or have them inspected by someone else.

Zak1976 wrote:

I didn't want to offend anyone personally here.

"No, you don't need to worry about that. My problem is that the wrong person is always being blamed. VW is not responsible for the testing equipment from BOSCH." That's just the way it is.

Quote:

I just don't understand why there isn't a testing facility for these expensive and, unfortunately, fragile parts. Especially, I can't imagine that a testing setup would really be that extremely complex.

It seems you haven't delved deeply into the subject of PD yet.
Testing a PD (positive displacement) element is already quite complex. First, it requires a significant amount of force to extract something from a PD element (approximately 6-12 kW, depending on its condition). Then, you need to precisely control the timing of the solenoid valve (relative to the pressure buildup) to create realistic operating conditions. Then, the spray pattern and the timing (which is important!) of both openings of the nozzle must be assessed.
Since a PD element can only be tested correctly in real-time (i.e., at the actual speed), it's unlikely to be visible to the human eye (too slow). The timing is even more critical for PD elements, which is why they must be tested in real-time.
Regarding the VP37 nozzles, no one complained that the second nozzle stage and its correct opening could not be properly checked with the standard equipment.
Testing a VP37 used to be a difficult task. VW couldn't do it either, and not every Bosch service center had a pump testing stand, as it was simply too expensive. For the PD exam, you need a pump test stand with an integrated nozzle testing device.

Quote:

At the very least, VW should be able to inspect these or have them inspected by someone.

VW can handle this, but your dealer probably won't know that. VW in Wolfsburg, however, knows exactly what to do with the defective PDEs (returning them to the supplier). These parts are processed and measured using machinery at the supplier's facility.

But why don't you even try building a "do it yourself" home testing rig?
You can easily find defective PDEs with timing issues for testing on online marketplaces. That should be enough for a first attempt. I think you'll quickly realize where the problems lie when testing these components.
When your test stand is ready and you have the first new nozzles installed, you will certainly be able to quickly distinguish them from the defective ones (or maybe not ).
Then it's time to start selling your invention. That will surely be ripped from your hands.

Okay, I've already familiarized myself with PDE techniques.
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but a suitable cylinder head, securely mounted on a test bench, would be a good starting point. The drive could be provided by an electric motor with a short gear ratio (transmitted via a spur gear), and the electrical control could certainly be implemented. This wouldn't allow for a simulation of "everyday operation," but it would certainly reveal whether the nozzle is clogged or not. The effort involved is certainly not worth it for a one-time test.
But let's get back to the topic. Could you perhaps tell me something about the PDE versions?

Zak1976 wrote:

... I might be oversimplifying things.

Yes, I think so too.

Quote:

"...but a suitable cylinder head, securely mounted on a test bench, would be a good starting point." The drive is then provided by an electric motor with a short gear ratio...

However, even at speeds of 500-2000 RPM, the gear ratio will likely still be quite long.

Quote:

... I'm sure it's possible to achieve electrical control as well. That would, of course, make it impossible to simulate "normal operations."

"As a quick fix, it definitely works..."

Quote:

...but you can usually tell whether the nozzle is clogged or not.

Certainly.

Quote:

The effort involved is certainly not worth it for a one-time test.

Ah, yes... That's exactly what I wanted to tell you.

Quote:

But back to the topic, could you perhaps say something about the PDE versions?

Magneti Marelli.
Unfortunately, I don't have any more detailed information about that. The project was abandoned very quickly.

Bosch.
The PD 1 injector is used in almost all PD TDI engines from 1999 to the present day (although there have been some minor variations). Also also auch verbaut im Land Rover TD5i.
PD 1.1 Initially installed in the AXR engine from May 2002. This design was the first to achieve EU4 compliance without using "tricks" or a DPF. This occurred in September 2001. I am only aware of its use in the AXR (74 kW) engine and its successor in the G5 with 77 kW. This component reduced the load on the powertrain by 30% and improved pressure build-up in the partial load range. I cannot say to what extent this technology has been incorporated into other PDE engines. I assume so.
PD 2 is used in the current 16V PD TDI engines. It combines the advantages of PD 1.1 and is so small that it can fit into a 4V cylinder head. That has been the biggest problem with PD so far.

Siemens VDO
PPD 1 is essentially the counterpart to the Bosch PD 2, but with piezo injectors. Currently, it is likely only used in 2.0L (Passat) engines. I unfortunately can't specify exactly which models. I'd have to look into that if I had more time.

Let me dig that up.

Are there any differences in the glow plugs (PD elements) of the 2.0 TDI engines with 140 hp and 8 valves, or are they all the same regardless of the engine code (MKB)?

Best regards,
Tobi.

The background to my question is...
Currently, my BPW power take-off (PTO) has components from a BMP unit installed (different part number, which is not available from BPW). The car is showing a speed of just under 195 km/h on the speedometer, and the fuel consumption indicator shows 1-1.5 liters more than the actual consumption.

However, he wasn't performing much better before either, with a time of approximately 205. The speedometer and fuel consumption display were accurate within 0.3 liters.

I attributed this to the following:

The diesel particulate filter was clogged, the camshaft was worn, the hydraulic lifters were collapsed, the glow plugs were also unusable, and the fuel consumption was 1 liter per 1000 km... a complete disaster.
I've put way too much money into this... but it's fun to do this kind of thing yourself .
Okay, everything seems to be fine now... All the values for the PD elements are within the normal range according to VCDS. Boost pressure is okay, air mass is within range, and the particulate filter system is working as expected. Compression also good (26.27, 28, 27 bar).

Now, I've done some research:

The owner of Dieseltechnik Bieberach provided me with the following information:

"Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English."
Dear Mr. Röll,

Unfortunately, the injection values are different and do not match.


We are always happy to provide you with further advice and assistance if you have any more questions.

Kind Regards,
Diesel-Technik-Biberach GmbH TEAM / Technology
Dogan Karakas
BOSCH Diesel Technicians.
"Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English."

and upon request.

""
Hello,

In short, each part number specifies different quantities of fuel that are injected, and these quantities are tailored to the specific engine.

Even though the TDIs are similar, there are huge differences between them.

I don't see any point in it at all, I don't understand why VW would do that, but if a specialist says so...
Okay, I'll get some BPW components and let you know how it goes.

Best regards from Tobi.

Mr. Röll is correct; that's why the respective tax authorities also use different characteristic curves for the PD units.

My name is Herr Röll .
Okay, then I'll see if the lathe finally works.

Ok Karakas.

Are the injector nozzles themselves all the same for the 8V engines?

MrMcFly79 wrote:

The nozzle inserts themselves are all the same for the 8V engines, aren't they?

No.

Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate.