Pumpe Düse: Components & Overview

Hello everyone,
Could you please compile a list in this thread of which injector nozzles were used in the 4-cylinder TDIs?
It would also be helpful if you could indicate which part numbers have been replaced and why (e.g., material defect, durability, acoustic behavior, burst pressure, load capacity, hole size...).
Furthermore, it would be helpful to learn some tips on cleaning and inspecting used or salvaged PDE (presumably referring to a specific type of equipment or component).
I was quite surprised when I inquired with Volkswagen about the cost of having the injection timing checked and an injection pattern analysis performed.
Answer: Nothing, it's not possible. I already checked with Bosch and got the same answer. It's unbelievable that you can't move a PDE even a millimeter with bare hands, but for a part that costs 500 euros, I would have expected there to be testing equipment for it. Typical VOLKSWAGEN...

Hi,

You will have to build the testing equipment yourself.
How about a lathe and a PD camshaft?

Best regards, Rainer.

Yes, I had also considered something like an old cylinder head with an electric motor, driven by the camshaft gear.
But why doesn't anyone have a testing facility for this? It can't be true, especially considering the prices of spare parts.

Zak1976 wrote:

...Well, typical VOLKSWAGEN...

What on earth does Volkswagen have to do with products from Bosch?
You should also ask DC if they can test the CR injectors from Bosch. They can't do that either!
There are suitable testing devices available for both PDE and CR injectors. However, these devices are quite complex and require a significant amount of control electronics, which makes them relatively expensive. Setting up such a testing system can easily require a complete workshop (with a cost in the three-digit euro range).
PDEs are maintained and repaired in industrial settings, typically close to the manufacturing area.

That's just the way things are today. With the increased use of electronics, testing individual components outside of the vehicle is only possible with a significant investment. This applies to CR (common rail) and PD (pump-injector) injectors as well. Simply firing them off like the good old VP (velocity pump) injectors is no longer feasible.

I didn't intend to offend anyone personally. I just don't understand why there isn't a testing facility for these expensive and, unfortunately, unreliable parts. I can't imagine that setting up a testing facility would be extremely complicated. At the very least, VW should be able to test these parts themselves or have them tested by someone else.

Zak1976 wrote:

I didn't want to offend anyone personally here.

Nein, da brauchst du dir keine Gedanken zu machen. Ich hab nur mein Problem damit das hier immer wieder der falsche an den Pranger gestellt wird. VW kann nichts für die Testgeräte von BOSCH. SThat's just the way it is.

Quote:

I just don't understand why there isn't a testing facility for these expensive and, unfortunately, fragile parts. I can't imagine that setting up a testing facility would be that extremely complex.

It seems you haven't explored the topic of PD (Parkinson's Disease) very much yet.
Testing a common rail injector is a complex process. First, it requires a significant amount of force to extract the injector (approximately 6-12 kW, depending on its condition). Then, the solenoid valve must be controlled with a precisely defined timing (relative to the pressure build-up) to simulate realistic conditions. Finally, the spray pattern and the timing (which is crucial!) of both openings of the injector must be assessed.
Since a PD element can only be tested correctly in real-time (i.e., at the actual speed), it's unlikely to be visible to the human eye (too slow). Furthermore, the timing is even more critical for PD elements, which is why they must be tested in real-time.
Regarding the VP37 nozzles, no one complained that the second nozzle stage and its correct opening could not be properly checked using the standard equipment.
Testing a VP37 used to be a difficult task as well. VW couldn't do it either, and not every Bosch service center had a pump testing stand. They were simply too expensive. To test a PD injector pump, you need a pump testing stand with an integrated nozzle testing device.

Quote:

At the very least, VW should be able to check these themselves or have them checked by someone else.

VW can handle this, but your dealer probably won't know about it. VW in Wolfsburg, however, knows exactly what to do with the defective parts (returning them to the supplier). At the supplier, these parts are reworked and measured using machinery.

But why don't you even try building a "do-it-yourself" home testing setup?
You can easily find defective Power Distribution Boards (PDBs) with timing issues for testing on online marketplaces. For initial testing, that should be sufficient. I think you'll quickly realize where the problems lie when testing these components.
When your test bench is ready and you have the first new nozzles installed, you will certainly be able to quickly distinguish them from the defective ones (or maybe not ).
Then it's time to start selling your invention. It will certainly be snatched away from you.

Okay, I've already familiarized myself with PDE techniques.
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but a suitable cylinder head, securely mounted on a test bench, would be a good starting point. The drive could be provided by an electric motor with a short gear ratio (transmitted via a spur gear), and the electrical control could certainly be implemented. This wouldn't allow for a simulation of "everyday operation," but it would certainly reveal whether the injector is clogged or not. Of course, the effort involved wouldn't be worthwhile for a one-time test.
But let's get back to the topic. Could you perhaps tell me something about the PDE versions?

Zak1976 wrote:

... Perhaps I'm seeing it a bit too simply.

Yes, I think so too.

Quote:

... but a suitable cylinder head, securely mounted on a test bench, would be a good starting point. The drive would then be provided by an electric motor with a short gear ratio...

However, even at speeds between 500 and 2000 RPM, the gear ratio is likely to be quite long.

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... I'm sure it's possible to achieve electrical control as well. However, that would make it impossible to simulate "everyday operation."

"As a quick fix, it definitely works..."

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... but you can usually tell whether the nozzle is clogged or not.

Certainly.

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The effort is certainly not worth it for a one-time test.

Ah, yes... That's exactly what I wanted to tell you.

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But back to the topic, could you perhaps say something about the PDE versions?

Magneti Marelli.
Unfortunately, I don't have any more details. The project was abandoned very quickly.

Bosch.
The PD 1 injector is used in almost all PD TDI engines from 1999 to the present day (although there have been some minor variations). It is also used in the Land Rover TD5i.
PD 1.1 was initially installed in the AXR engine from May 2002. This design was the first to achieve EU4 compliance without using "tricks" or a DPF. This occurred in September 2001. I am only aware of its use in the AXR (74 kW) and its successor in the G5 with 77 kW. This component reduced the load on the powertrain by 30% and improved pressure build-up in the partial load range. I cannot say to what extent this technology has been incorporated into other PDE engines, but I suspect it has.
PD 2 is used in the current 16V PD TDI engines. It combines the advantages of PD 1.1 and is so small that it fits into a 4V cylinder head. This has been the biggest problem with PD technology so far.

Siemens VDO
PPD 1 is essentially the counterpart to the Bosch PD 2, but uses piezo injectors. Currently, it's likely only used in 2.0L (Passat) engines. I can't say exactly which models use it. I'd need to do some more research to find out.

I'll dig that up.

Are there any differences in the glow plugs (PD elements) of the 2.0 TDI engines with 140 hp and 8 valves, or are they all the same regardless of the engine code (MKB)?

Best regards,
Tobi.

The reason I'm asking is...
Currently, my BPW system has components from a BMP (different part number, which isn't available from BPW). With these components, the vehicle's speedometer reads approximately 195 km/h... and the fuel consumption display shows 1-1.5 liters more than the actual consumption.

However, it wasn't performing much better before either, with a speedometer reading of approximately 205 km/h, and the fuel consumption display was accurate within 0.3 liters.

I attributed this to the following:

The diesel particulate filter was clogged, the camshaft was worn, the hydraulic lifters were collapsed, the glow plugs were also unusable, and the fuel consumption was 1 liter per 1000 km... a complete disaster.
I've put way too much money into it... but it's fun to do this kind of thing yourself .
Okay, everything seems to be fine now... All the values for the PD elements are within the normal range according to VCDS. Boost pressure is okay, air mass is within range, and the particulate filter system is working correctly. Compression is also good (26.27, 28, 27 bar).

Now, I've done some research:

The owner of Dieseltechnik Bieberach provided me with the following information:

"Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English."
Dear Mr. Röll,

Unfortunately, the injection values are different and do not match.


We are always happy to assist you with any further questions you may have.

Kind Regards,
Diesel-Technik-Biberach GmbH TEAM / Technology
Dogan Karakas
BOSCH Diesel Technicians.
"Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English."

and upon request.

""
Hello,

In short, each part number injects different amounts of fuel, which are tailored to the specific engine.

Even though the TDIs are similar, there are huge differences between them.

I don't see any point in it at all, I don't understand why VW would do that, but if a specialist says so...
Okay, I'll get some BPW components and let you know how it goes.

Best regards from Tobi.

Mr. Röll is correct; that's why there are different characteristic curves for the PD units in the respective taximeters.

My name is Mr. Röll .
Okay, then I'll see if the server finally starts working.

Ok Karakas.

Are the injector nozzles themselves all the same for the 8V engines?

MrMcFly79 wrote:

The nozzle inserts themselves are all the same for the 8V engines, aren't they?

No.

Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.