Golf Brake Upgrade: Experiences with 256x13 to 256x20

HI,

My 13-inch brake discs have only 11.6 mm of material left after 102,000 km - so I should start thinking about what to replace them with next (the minimum allowable thickness, as far as I know, is 11 mm).

102 kkm / 1.4 mm * 0.6 mm = 43.7 kkm, I still have time .

Given that the 1.5 tons of weight from the station wagon already makes it quite difficult to stop (when it's rolling), I'm considering getting 20-inch ventilated brake discs. I understand that they won't improve braking performance because the friction radius remains the same, but they might prevent the car from shaking and feeling unstable as much when coming into a downhill section from speeds of 170 km/h.

The annoying thing is that I now need new backing plates, which are annoyingly expensive (80 euros each).

Is it worth the fun? Has anyone (besides Dirk) done this before?

Thank you.
Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to install the brake system from the GT or GTI right from the start? While you might need larger wheels, you would get better braking performance and improved durability of the brakes.

Simply converting to an internal ventilation system doesn't really achieve much.

bastion wrote:

Wouldn't it be more sensible to install the GT or GTI system right from the start? ...

Stupid counter-question:
What do you think Martin is planning to upgrade his braking system to?
Answer:
From GT!.
It really only differs in the ventilated glass.

In the G3 model, there was only one larger brake system available, which had 5 bolt holes. However, converting from a 4-bolt to a 5-bolt system would likely be quite complex and time-consuming.
With the G4, things are different again.

@ Martin
Yes, it makes a difference.
While the performance isn't necessarily better, there is a noticeable improvement in durability and longer lifespan, even with thinner coatings.
"I did that with my old Jetta 1 and my Golf 2. Fortunately, all I had to do was replace the windshields and brake pads. The experience was good."

Bertil wrote:

Stupid counter-question: What do you think Martin is planning to upgrade his braking system to? Answer: From GT!. It really only differs in the ventilated glass.

I thought the GT or GTI had 288mm brake discs, but I was probably mistaken.

There were countless installations in hall G3.

12x239 VWII 13"

13x256 Girling 14-inch.
20x256 Girling 14-inch.

not entirely sure:
25x280 = ? 15"
28x288 ?? 15"


A change to 15" rims is not an option, especially after the summer tire odyssey. I just bought two sets of summer and winter tires. Besides that, the approved 195/50 15 tires are much too small for me; the 195/60 14 tires have a significantly larger circumference -> higher top speed, lower fuel consumption .

If so, then only this one step.

Thanks, Bertil. I'll gather some prices so I can calculate everything accurately.

Will I ever be able to remove those two 12.9 grade M12 bolts from the mounting brackets in the garage, or do I need a bunch of special tools again?

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

I switched from a Golf 3 TDI (256x13) to a Lupo TDI (256x20), and I'm impressed with the brakes compared to the Golf, although that's not surprising considering the car is almost 200 kg lighter.

The biggest limiting factor for 4x100 bolt pattern is likely the 280x22 brake setup from the Corrado/Golf G60, but if you use those, you'll need to run 15-inch wheels year-round.

Otherwise, the 256x25 from the Lupo GTI might be another option.

bastion wrote:

I thought that the GT or GTI had 288mm brake discs. I must have been mistaken.

Yes, in the G4, but not in the 3-series.

However, there are also limitations in this case.
The 15" brakes (288 or 280) that Martin mentioned might also have been available in some 3-series GTIs (but not the GT). I remember seeing a 3-series GTI once that had 5-hole wheels. The owner claimed he bought the car like that (used).
The Golf Mk3 with the VR6 engine definitely had the 5-hole brake system.

Quote:

In building G3, there were countless facilities: 12x239 VWII 13"

Only in the smaller engine versions. As far as I remember, it's not available in the TDI models.
Basically, it's the brake system from the old Volkswagen Golf 1 and 2 models.

Quote:

13x256 Girling 14-inch. 20x256 Girling 14-inch.

13mm without ventilation, 20mm with ventilation.
Mostly used in mid-size to large engine vehicles.

Quote:

not quite sure: 25 x 280 = ? 15" 28x288 ?? 15"

"...at least, I'm familiar with the 280 version in the G3 VR6. I'm not sure about the 288."

YES.

The 13-inch version was only available until the non-variant AAZ model.

The two 14-inch models were primarily dependent on the specific model and its age. Generally, later models tended to be 20-inch versions.

The 5-hole rims, also known as 15" "pizza plates," were available on the GTI 16V and VR6 models – specifically, those with a positive offset.

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hello Martin,

The plus-axle definitely existed in the 3er GTI with 85KW . I dismantled one a few years ago, and the (front) axles + brakes are still working in my Golf2 today, with 5-hole rims .

Best regards, Peer.

Hello,

I upgraded from 256x13mm to 256x20mm internally ventilated brake rotors. My Golf has the Girling system, so all you need are new caliper mounting brackets, rotors, and pads.
The brake pads and rotors were due for replacement anyway, and the mounting bolts on the old calipers were worn out. So, the decision was made.
I can't really notice a significant difference in the braking performance. However, I'm not exactly an aggressive driver, and for normal operation, almost everything has remained the same.
I have the impression that the braking performance has worsened in heavy rain. I don't remember experiencing that "dead time" with the smaller brake discs.

Bertil wrote:

...at least, I am familiar with the 280 in the G3 VR6.

I'm not sure about the 288. }
Both, from and including chassis number. The larger one is the newer one.

@ Oliver

Quote:

I'm not exactly a "slow driver"

.

I'm not either, considering that my brakes already have 102,000 km on them and are estimated to last until 150,000 km.

Poorer wet braking performance... that's understandable because the small disc instantly converts all the liquid water into water plasma due to how quickly it heats up.

Hast du alles mit org. Shared yet?

Best regards to Garzweiler II .
Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hi Martin,

Maybe you should also consider looking at Seat options... My ASV Ibiza has a 4-hole design and 280mm internally ventilated discs, but on 15-inch rims. However, there might be a very well-suited combination available for the smaller models.

Since the Ibi is a mix of the 6N, Golf 2, and Golf 3 models with some elements from the Golf 4, there's likely to be quite a bit of unexpected compatibility.

Best regards,

January.

Hi Jan,

There might not be anything suitable available if I don't want to move away from my 14-inch wheels.
30x256 would not change anything and becomes 20x256, and it does not exist .

The 256mm brake discs fill the wheel wells completely, so I can't fit any other size of wheels. Especially not if I don't want to change the calipers.

It's clear that if I were to change everything, I would find powerful braking systems within the Volkswagen Group.

I'm just wondering if I should only replace the pads and rotors next time, or also the pad carriers, which need to be replaced when going from size 13 to 20.

If it's not going to make a difference anyway, I'll save the €160.

Each additional step costs me the modification of the windows plus two complete sets of wheels (which means 8 rims and 8 tires, totaling approximately 850 euros extra).

That's not worth it to me.

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

You'll likely find used brake calipers somewhere. 160 € is not a reasonable price. I paid 100 € for two calipers and brackets for my Girling 60 brakes (dual-piston, from an Audi S2).

Can the Girling 54 be converted to a 60?

So, the Girling 60 is also a 14-inch system – what size discs does it use?

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.