Ibiza Suspension Problems: No End in Sight

Hello,

I hope you can still help me because I'm starting to feel lost. My KLR 650 is very unstable on the highway when it hits bumps; I feel like the rear wheels are on soap.
I've also noticed that it seems to be developing a significant tendency to sway or wobble.



The following parts have been replaced (with the previous mileage indicated in parentheses):

* Sachs Supertouring gas-pressure shock absorbers (60,000 km).
* Stabilizer bushings, tie rod ends, strut mounts, wheel bearings front (2,000 km).
* Tie rods and ball joints, front (20,000 km / 12,400 miles).
Bridgestone Turanza ER300 tires, size 195/50R15, with approximately 6-7mm of tread remaining, inflated to 2.6 bar (driven for 10,000 km).
Wheel alignment performed after replacing the control arm bushings.

* New front driveshaft joints.
* New rear wheel bearings.



I went to the TÜV (German technical inspection agency) today, and the shock absorber test showed:

VL 75%, VR 73%, Difference 2%.
HL 83%, HR 83%, Difference 0%.


The technicians from the TÜV (German technical inspection agency) put a lot of effort into the inspection, and in addition to the shock absorber test, they checked all the bearings on the shaker plate. They also examined the rubber-to-metal bearings at the rear axle that I had suspected might be faulty, and ruled them out. Furthermore, they described all the wheel joints and the entire suspension system as "free of defects."

It's not surprising, considering that almost all the parts are brand new, and the car has its original springs.


I'm quite at a loss because he hasn't always been like that.


Greetings.
George.

Hi, I suspect this is related to the rubber bushings of the suspension. The gas pressure, if it's higher, probably contributes to the tendency to drift.
Is the steering linkage securely fastened, or does it use rubber bushings?

Hello Klaus,

Do you mean the connection between the steering gear and the front axle? We haven't checked that yet.

The rear axle bearings were inspected today at the TÜV (German technical inspection agency) using a mounting tool, and they were found to be in "good" condition.

By the way, I was really surprised by our TÜV (technical inspection agency): the shock absorber test and the entire inspection were free of charge.

Yes, I know from other models that some steering racks are mounted in rubber bushings that can become softened and pliable due to exposure to engine oil. However, I think you've already identified the problem at the rear if there's a noticeable tendency for the vehicle to steer itself while driving.
I'm not sure how accurate the TÜV statement is, so I can't rely on it.
We had a case where three inspectors were uncertain about a cracking sound in the shock absorber and initially assessed it as not being defective, but it was actually broken.

I recently bought the original factory sport suspension from a friend at a good price. It had very few kilometers on it, isn't rusty, and the dampers aren't leaking. I'm going to try installing them to see if they make a difference.

I'm running with a relatively high tire pressure – mainly for fuel efficiency, reduced wear, and because I prefer a firmer ride. Could that 2.7 bar of pressure explain the shifting behavior?

Hey,

I mean that air pressure is a good approach.
I'm familiar with this from trucks (tractor-trailer combinations), where they are driven with a pressure of 7.5 bar on the rear axle.
The workshop installed new tires and inflated them to 9 bar, which resulted in excessive vibration even on minor road imperfections, all while carrying a load of 40 tons.
I then reduced the pressure to 7.5 bar, and the problem stopped.

Before you modify your suspension, I would definitely recommend testing the effect of lowering the air pressure.

Best regards,

2,6 bar fahre ich auch - auf der Hinterachse! Die Vorderachse ist mit 2,9 bar optimal.

I just remembered something: Please swap the front and rear tires, making sure to pay attention to the direction of rotation!

Hello,

I already tried the tip about changing the tires yesterday, but it didn't help; they're all almost new anyway.

I'm going to let some air out of the tires tomorrow, at least the rear ones.


What also frustrates me is that, according to my SEAT specialist, the specified alignment setting for the front axle in the ELSA documentation is 0°00'. My wheel alignment service diligently set the toe to 0°00', but the camber was set to -1°00', which I primarily noticed as a significantly more direct steering feel (although it might also be due to the new strut mounts, as the old ones had 2mm of play).

However, I suspect this will lead to increased wear on the inner side of the suspension components. Therefore, when I install the new suspension, I will bring the ELSA printout and have the axle adjusted according to the values specified there, rather than relying solely on the mechanic's "knowledge."


I plan to modify the suspension in this specific way because it's the factory sport suspension from the Cupra, which is even approved for my TDI with its original part numbers. It's a bit stiffer, and I think a shock absorber and spring system designed by the manufacturer is better than the combination of Sachs gas shocks and standard springs that I currently have installed.

And for such a small amount of money, it's not much effort – just about 2 hours of tinkering plus measuring, and the suspension is back in working order.


I will also replace the rubber strut mounts at the top of the rear shock absorbers on both sides, purely as a precaution, since I don't know how well they are after 195,000 km.



Thanks in advance for all the helpful tips. Tomorrow, as a first step, I'll also reduce the air pressure when filling up the tires... although I don't think I put more than 2.7 bar in them, unless the gauge was inaccurate. I'll try setting the front tires to 2.6 and the rear tires to 2.5.

I will report next week on what improvements the suspension installation has provided.



Just to mention: The TÜV inspection revealed that the compression rates are slightly lower than the factory specifications – thanks to the gas pressure dampers. Instead of a measured compression depth of 35mm during the test, it only sank 20mm. Also, thanks to the gas pressure dampers, it sits about 1-2cm higher than before, unfortunately. Hopefully, this will be compensated by the Cupra suspension.


At this point, I also want to say something positive about this forum: Here, people constructively address problems and seek solutions using the hardware they have available.

I bet that in countless other forums, people would have responded with comments like, "Well, why are you surprised? It's full of cheap parts! Get some lowering springs or a complete suspension kit, then you'll be fine, and the car will handle great!"

It's good to see that the standard is still being maintained here, so thank you for that!



Greetings.
George.

Are you performing a basic test of the dampers here?

Gas pressure: Push it in, and it will come back out when it's okay.
Oil pressure: It goes in just as easily as it comes out, but it only exits very slowly or not at all if everything is okay.


Is that correct? That's at least what I learned from a car mechanic.

Tomorrow is the big day. The suspension parts arrived, and I installed them today. Tomorrow, I'll repaint the springs and shock absorbers again to protect the few rust spots on them.


Where I could use your expert advice:


ELSA states: Track alignment value for sports suspension: 0°00; Caster angle: 0°00.


"During the last wheel alignment, -1°00 was set as the camber angle, and according to the alignment service, that's how it should be... so, what now? Should I insist on 0° tomorrow, or just let them do it like that? With a negative camber of -1°, I would have increased inner edge wear, even if only minimal."

Since the last alignment (which was just a few weeks ago due to new control arm bushings, etc.), I've felt that the car is very twitchy and reacts extremely directly to steering inputs (although it might also be related to the new control arm bushings/strut mounts).


It would be great if someone could comment on this today or early tomorrow morning, as it needs to go for surveying then.


Personally, if it were up to me, I would stick to the VAG specification of 0°.

Stick to the Volkswagen guidelines!

"Yes, that's how we have it set up now. It's perfectly stable, the suspension is really perfect, and I'm absolutely satisfied. And the installation even went well on the driveway; it took just under 3 hours because I had to transfer the new strut mounts from all the old shock absorbers and first remove all the springs."

Ibiza1986 wrote:

Yes, that's how we have it set up now - it's stable like a board, the suspension is really perfect, and I'm absolutely satisfied.

Then I would also be interested in knowing exactly what change you attribute the lack of rear axle movement in wavy curves to: Our two TDIs (Polo 9N and 6K Ibi ALH) do something similar, and it's an unpleasant feeling.

The sport suspension already has springs that are about 4cm shorter when removed. However, when installed, it only lowers the car by a good 2cm – which leads me to believe they are stiffer springs. This significantly improves the ride quality. Yesterday, this was confirmed on the way home on the highway, when I let it reach 220 km/h downhill, something I usually never do or have ever driven that fast in this car. Even then, it responded perfectly to steering inputs, much more directly, with no noticeable body roll at the rear.


And then, the Sachs gas-pressure shock absorbers in the rear weren't exactly the best anymore, and they weren't very smooth when you pushed down on the back of the car... that's completely changed now with the factory sport suspension.

For that, you get every manhole cover as feedback, but it's not uncomfortable, just tight and hard.


On the rear axle of a 6K, you can remove the shock absorber in about 20 minutes per side. Then, I would simply check if there is any play in the shock absorber shaft. If there is excessive lateral movement, the upper spring perch, its rubber bushing, and the strut mount located above it should also be checked.

To my knowledge, the rear suspension is different on the 9N; it has separate shocks and springs, while the 6K uses a combined spring/shock unit.


It would also be beneficial to have the rear axle support bearings checked/replaced during the 60,000 km service.


High air pressure can also cause problems, as mentioned above.



If you need technical articles or repair instructions for the 6K as email attachments, just send me a private message, and I'll find the relevant information for you. I have access to all the important documents from SEAT.


Regards,
George.

I just have the measurement report in front of me, so for those who are interested, here are the values for the front axle.

Bearing left: 0°04.
Bearing to the right: 0°04.

Tilt left: -0°30'
Tilt right -0°30'.


Thanks to the slight toe-in and slightly negative camber, the car handles like a plank of wood.