Polo - welchen Benzinmotor? | Posts 16+

..I didn't know. Although he was responsible for some technical "crimes," THAT is something I wouldn't have wished on him. I hope he hasn't become a victim of his own short-sightedness (regarding the accident). That would be pure fate or destiny...

Regarding the family car: We've decided to test a TSI. This Friday, we'll test drive a Seat Altea (105 Przewalskis). Let's see what it can do. It should definitely have enough power. And visually, it really appeals to my wife. And as you know, aesthetics are very important to women (at least when it comes to vehicles ). Is there an extended warranty option available for Seat vehicles?

Greetings, Styrian.

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to test the TSI. In my opinion, it's irrelevant now. Because I no longer trust the VW salesperson's statement that the problem was fixed in 2012. On the contrary.

I only recently learned about a TSI engine with almost !!! 30,000 km !!! (extreme short-distance driving) that had chain problems, and it was manufactured in May 2012 !!! But also from a TSI (1.2 105 hp) with a long-distance driving profile (40,000 km) that has already had its timing chain replaced.

According to a workshop master from another company, there is supposedly 1 vehicle with problems for every 100 vehicles sold. Whether you believe that now is up to you. Above all - over what period and with what driving profile???

My cousin also has a 1.2 TSI engine with 105 horsepower. It only has about 20,000 km on the clock. I definitely warned him and told him about the symptoms. It seems to me that the timing chain issue is a clear design flaw, especially in short-distance driving. The timing chain and its tensioner are probably simply undersized. And too lazy.

"@Roger & bloesch: The EA211 is likely a completely new development. Therefore, I would be interested in being a beta tester again. However, it's interesting that the company Dayco has designed a timing belt in an oil bath for the EA211, but according to their statement, only for the oil pump. A natural weak point, perhaps? The timing belt for the water pump would run dry and be separated from the camshaft drive (like in the AFN). However, there's nothing mentioned about the timing belt for the camshaft control. I'm somehow afraid of Volkswagen's "engineering" – who knows what they've messed up this time.

Has anyone ever seen an EA211 or EA888 engine, or its diesel counterpart, the EA288, in person? Or even opened one up? A cross-section drawing would also be fine.

Greetings, Styrian.

What is the fundamental problem with the chain drive, then? The tensioner? Given the previous production time and the fact that these are high-volume engines, shouldn't there have been a correction implemented in the production line by now?! It's no secret that the VW Group, in principle, avoids admitting to product defects. However, fleet operators often achieve an out-of-court settlement or the initiated proceedings are concluded with a settlement proposal from the court by threatening legal action. Unfortunately, private buyers rarely have grounds to invoke this clause and often find themselves in a difficult situation.

As long as it cannot be definitively ruled out that there may be changes in the series production of current vehicles, and that these serious problems have been resolved, I would not buy any of these models with these engine options. Within this price range, you can also find similar products elsewhere, and you at least have the chance of acquiring a flawless product without a pre-determined weak point.


Okay, here's the translation:

"Slightly off-topic: To be honest, right now there isn't a single car on the market that makes me feel like I'm not getting a pretty shell with various built-in weaknesses for my hard-earned money. I'm buying in a price range where I get reliable, albeit somewhat boring, technology. I expect my rice cooker to last for four years of use." Beyond that, I am delighted, and in the meantime, I have also had to endure a loss in value that is difficult to quantify.

Quote:

What is the fundamental problem of chain drives, then? The wrench?

presumably:

1. the thrifty fox
2. Lack of expertise.
3. Apparent lack of/insufficient material testing of supplier parts in series production.
4. Intentionally factored in - unfortunately, perhaps miscalculated?

Hutfahrer wrote:

Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English. Okay, here's the translation: "Slightly off-topic: To be honest, right now there isn't a single car on the market that makes me feel like I'm not getting a pretty shell with various built-in weaknesses for my hard-earned money. I'm buying in a price range where I get reliable, albeit somewhat boring, technology. I expect my rice cooker to last for four years of use." Beyond that, I am happy, and in the meantime, I have also had to endure a hardly quantifiable loss in value.

I have to agree with Hütti on that! Many rice cookers are actually quite good for the price, and they can be found used at very affordable prices, despite having a few minor flaws.

Autoservice wrote:

Quote: What, then, is the fundamental problem of chain drives? The wrench? presumably: 1. the thrifty fox 2. Lack of expertise. 3. Apparent lack of/insufficient material testing of supplier parts in series production. 4. consciously factored in - unfortunately, perhaps miscalculated?

Hi!

Yes, I agree.

But I'm sure the problem isn't a lack of expertise.
There are still some old BMW 318 models around, manufactured between 1985 and 1988, which also have a chain drive. Many of them have over 300,000 kilometers on the odometer.
No one has done anything else to the engine besides changing the oil and spark plugs, etc.

However, you can also see the chains through the oil filler cap.
That's quite different from the current engines.
Nowadays, a bicycle chain is quite resistant to that.

I haven't seen it yet, but I've already heard about it.
The latest big hit is supposed to be timing belts.
that run in the engine oil.

Hi,

Quote:

I haven't seen it yet, but I've already heard about it. The latest big hit is supposed to be timing belts. that run in the engine oil.

Are these the ones used to power the water pump in the very latest engines, right? Okay, here's the translation:

"So, what Styrian wrote in the lower part of the post."

I can't imagine that being used to drive the camshaft.

Best regards,

Jan.

For example, the new Ford 3-cylinder engine has a timing chain running in an oil bath for the camshaft.

The chain failures are caused by the reasons mentioned. Due to worn-out tools, the parts are falling outside of their tolerances, so it doesn't affect everyone, but a very large number of them. However, the trend towards saving will never stop, so you can almost only do what Jan does: buy the last item from a discontinued series before buying the first item from the current one.

@matthiasTDI96: EXACTLY, that's the mystery I can't understand. I was already skeptical about an oil pump, which doesn't experience the same kind of stress as a timing belt. I might have been able to imagine that. But what about the oil-immersed camshaft drive?

Specifically, when considering that oil temperatures don't necessarily have to be low. And also that fuel contamination in the lubricant may not necessarily be beneficial for a timing chain - in my opinion. VW Group engines seem particularly prone to this. I'm somewhat skeptical.

Therefore, the question arises whether a sectional drawing or even an exploded view of the EA211 might be available. Are there any long-term experience values available for ZR (presumably referring to a component) in an oil bath? And how long has the Ford engine been in production? Are there any other engine manufacturers that follow the same concept?

Best regards, Styrian.

Edit: I just did a quick search online... the Ford EcoBoost engine actually uses a submerged timing chain. Apparently, that's a good thing (according to the marketing materials). Therefore, Ford seems to be ahead of the Volkswagen Group in this regard. They've had this engine since 2012 (or maybe even since 2010?). However, I doubt there's much real-world experience to draw on in this case...

You're referring to the EcoBoost family. Its development started in 2010, and it was first introduced to the market in 2012, initially in the Focus. I can't find any information anywhere about a timing belt replacement. What about you? Therefore, it should be designed to last for the entire lifespan of the vehicle; in the Focus, it was previously specified as 260,000 km or 10 years. I don't know if the values are still current.

It's not a family of engines; they only share the name. However, they are all quite different. Only the small three-cylinder engine has the timing belt construction mentioned. I think this is a viable approach, especially since wet-running belts are not uncommon in mechanical engineering. However, they are certainly less common in cars, especially as a drive for the auxiliary components. It should be clear that this belt is not made from ordinary, run-of-the-mill materials.


The specified lifespans are unfortunately only the result of legal certainty and fear. It's reasonable for car manufacturers to keep the fear small, because even though customers may not be very bright, they often can't think for themselves. In my case, for example, the battery is failing in the 12th year. This has nothing to do with maintenance (I've never done anything to it), but more with the fact that the car is never used for short trips. Similar behavior can be observed in other components, such as brakes. However, my usage represents an extreme situation, but in a "positive" direction.

@matthiasTDI96: Does that mean that the larger engines in the EcoBoost series (1.5, 1.6, and 2.0) do not have a wet clutch? In mechanical engineering, I can imagine this – do you have an example? I would be interested in the associated load changes. As far as I know, there aren't many long-term experiences with this engine (in automobiles) either, since this 1.0 Ecoboost engine has only been used since 2012...

Greetings, Styrian.