Steuergerät ertrunken | Posts 16+

I don't have the exact specifications for the engine compartment (not the water tank!), but if my memory serves me correctly, the ambient temperature was somewhere between 100 and 120°C.


Bosch states that the ignition timing varies between 105 and 125 degrees, depending on the generation of the engine control unit (ECU), in conventional electronic control units like those used in the EDC system.


What interests me more at the moment is that the EDC is normally completely waterproof (IP69). However, it's also clear that some kind of modification has been done. Therefore, I would strongly criticize whoever performed the tuning...

CU Gremlin.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Hi,'

Okay, so the tuner has drained the TCU (Transmission Control Unit) and checked it as much as possible.
I dried the ECU in the oven for about an hour at a temperature of 50 to 60°C, regardless of whether it was necessary or not.
(I didn't realize you had to leave it in the oven for so long.)
=> Car is running again; according to VAG-COM, there are no error codes stored except for the airbag system.
control that I am not allowed to reset with VAG-COM.
In addition, I sealed the transmission from the outside with body sealant.
Hopefully, I will not experience any malfunctions caused by corrosion.

Are circuit boards not usually coated with a protective layer?
Does it still make sense to put the STG back into the oven now, while it's still closed?

I'll check the water tank and drains this weekend.

Thank you for the many responses.

Achim wrote:

I dried the ECU in the oven for about an hour at a temperature of 50 to 60°C, regardless of whether it was necessary or not. (I didn't realize you had to leave it in the oven for so long.)

This temperature is certainly not critical.

Quote:

=> Car is running again; according to VAG-COM, there are no error codes stored except for the airbag system. control that I am not allowed to reset with VAG-COM.

I've used VAG-COM for this before.

Quote:

In addition, I sealed the transmission from the outside with body sealant. Hopefully, I will not experience any malfunctions caused by corrosion.

Certainly not! Sooner or later, it will happen.

Quote:

Are circuit boards not usually coated with a protective layer?

That only makes things worse, so (at least here), circuit boards haven't been coated with lacquer for a long time.

Quote:

Does it still make sense to put the STG back into the oven now, while it's still closed?

If you've now sealed the control unit (STG), where will any remaining moisture go?

Hi Achim,
Whether or not to use a protective coating is a matter of personal preference! Some manufacturers apply it, while others do not.
I personally believe that a tightly sealed enclosure with a pressure equalization vent (ideally...)
with a Gore-Tex membrane to allow moisture to escape but prevent it from entering).
the optimal solution. Therefore, at least the older STGs (MSA12/15) are very close to it.

In its current state, I wouldn't put the STG in the oven. Instead, it would be better to take the whole thing apart again (it's a crappy job, I know ) and bake it for several hours.
It would help me sleep (and drive) more calmly.

Best regards, Rudi.

Hi,

@Bertil

Quote:

=> Car is running again; according to VAG-COM, there are no error codes stored except for the airbag system.
control that I am not allowed to reset with VAG-COM.


I have used VAG COM for this many times before .

There's a specific airbag control unit that cannot be accessed or diagnosed using VAG-COM.
It should be addressed because otherwise it is defective. That's exactly what I have installed.

Quote:

Does it still make sense to put the sealed container back into the oven now?


If you've now sealed the control unit (STG), where will any remaining moisture go?

Ja, schon klar. Das STG hat im hinteren Bereich oben eine Öffnung. Is this like Rudi?
'Is this about pressure equalization? Could moisture also get in through that opening?'
escape.
Does anyone know what the black sealant used to seal the transmission is called?
and where can one get them?

hello Achim,
Yes, that's correct.
It appears that this issue affects all airbag control units manufactured from the year 2000.
It happened to my Lupo 3L too.
I unintentionally proceeded with the process without knowing what it was, and as a result, the aforementioned problem occurred.
In the workshop, the master mechanic read the error codes, checked them on a computer, and said that the replacement would be covered 100%.
Without any buts or conditions.
greetings

Gremlin wrote:

but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES RINSE WITH WATER! even with distilled water...besides the fact that it would be counterproductive, it doesn't really verschandeln effectively either. There are suitable materials for that purpose...

Hi Ralf,

What would you use to remove previously water-soluble residues from circuit boards?

Quote:

Multilayer circuit boards absorb a lot of water, and so do the components.

Manufacturers even provide "baking instructions" if you open a package and the moisture indicator strip has been triggered.

Bertil wrote:

What types of components exhibit such hygroscopic behavior? And in the water tank, it's quite possible that harsh climatic conditions can occur (below the flood level), including, for example, condensation. How can we make the STGs more resistant?

Electromigration will eventually resolve itself, and it will bring you a lot of fun sooner or later.}
Hi Bertil.
Electromigration – what exactly is it?

hi,
Electromigration is the geometric change in conductive pathways caused by a high current density.
it shouldn't be too much even after 10 years.
especially because the current densities here are not particularly high.
greetings

Well, the power stages have already caused some headaches for people. With VE pumps, it's still manageable because you only need to control the flow meter using PWM. (The valves are more of a minor issue).

PD and CR systems are a bit more complicated because you have to supply the injectors with quite a lot of current to achieve reasonably good injection times... that's why the voltage is boosted somewhat .


@ulf

There are special solvents for cleaning circuit boards. The advantage of these is that, due to their volatility, they only remain on the board for a short time, resulting in a short exposure time. They also evaporate from even the most remote crevices, whereas water would linger for hours. Also, avoid using any coarse mechanical methods. If you damage a solder joint, it will almost certainly fail over time. How long that takes and when it will completely break is only known to the gods. The temperature stress in a car accelerates this process.

As already mentioned, the control units designed for installation in the engine compartment or splash areas are waterproof (IP69). If they are not handled carelessly like a blacksmith and the seals remain intact, they will also remain waterproof after disassembly and reassembly .

Painting circuit boards is not necessary within such an enclosure. We only paint circuit boards if they either carry high voltages and/or are exposed to moisture (the device has an IP20 rating and is intended for a climate-controlled electrical cabinet, but you know how customers can be...).

CU Gremlin.

Hi,

Sound Lupo 3L wrote:

hi, Electromigration is the geometric change in conductive pathways caused by a high current density. it shouldn't be too much even after 10 years. especially because the current densities here are not particularly high. greetings

It has nothing to do with the geometric change of the conductor track, but rather with the material change of the conductor track! While current density is certainly a causal factor, it can also be quite high in the motor control unit (especially at the output stages of the control elements). In a car radio or navigation system, it definitely is.

Electromigration is the release of salts or similar crystals from conductive paths/solder joints, caused by electrolytic processes. This is particularly a problem with solder containing lead and tin.
Lead-containing solder will have to be phased out of automotive applications in the coming years. Lead is only permitted in batteries starting January 1, 2004!

After water damage, the likelihood of this effect occurring is significantly higher than it would be otherwise.

The exact cause of this effect has not yet been fully researched, and scientists are still debating the possible causes.

Ulf wrote:

Hi Bertil. Electromigration - what exactly is it?

http://www.ifw-dresden.de/ifs/31/gfa/em_d.htm
http://www.tweakpc.de/berichte/emig/emig.htm

Hi Bertil.

Thank you for the explanation and the links to electromigration - very interesting.

Hi,

Sure, here's the translation:

'Another question.'
As I mentioned earlier, there's something on the top side of my control unit (STG).
'Drill a hole with a diameter of approximately 5 mm in the rear area. What is this hole for, and how is it normally closed?'

Hi Achim,
The picture isn't great, but I think you're referring to the dark, roundish object in the indentation.
The pressure is equalized through the hole, and the 'gnubbel' contains the membrane (or something similar) that I mentioned earlier.
If this plastic part is missing from your engine control unit (ECU), then either your tuner overslept (he should have noticed it when removing/opening the unit) or did a sloppy job. I'm not entirely sure if tuning can be done without using the diagnostic interface for this particular ECU.
I might gently bring it up to the tuner sometime.

Best regards, Rudi.

Hello,

I think you should open that thing up and verschandeln it with contact cleaner. I always do that whenever I make any changes to a control unit to remove soldering residue.
'60°C shouldn't be a problem; depending on the specific component, they really need to withstand 125°C, for example, when installed in the engine compartment without an electronic control unit (like in the Fabia).'
'By the way, Opel ECUs need to handle even higher temperatures because they are mounted on the engine, with full functionality up to 155°C, whereas Volkswagen ECUs have full functionality up to 125°C.'
VW is even stricter than almost all other manufacturers when it comes to the requirements for solid-state batteries (SSBs).
Um welches Gerät handelt es sich ? SIMOS?

Best regards,

hmm...

I would say it's a Bosch EDC 15 .

CU Gremlin.

Hi,
Just to avoid any confusion:
The picture shows the first TDI engine control unit (ECU) with this plastic plug that I found on yaBe (although it should be an EDC15).
Whether Achim's STG actually looks like that...
I reduced Nicklas's double post to a single one.

Best regards, Rudi.