TDI-km real teurer als uns lieb ist? | Posts 16+

Hi,

My statement about the oversupply referred to diesel vehicles that are 3-5 years old, as these are often company cars that are offered for sale in large numbers after the end of their leasing or depreciation period.

Best regards, Jürgen.

Hello,
I mean that TDIs only unlock their full potential for cost savings if you can do almost everything yourself. In an (incompetent) workshop, you can get ripped off with a TDI.


Hi Rainer,

You're right about that... I drive a lot now, almost 50,000 km per year, and my V6 TDI (AFB) has now reached 200,000 km after 4 years.

A) Over the 4 years, I had approximately 5-6 weeks of unplanned visits to the workshop, totaling around 20 separate appointments. This meant having to use rental cars, which fortunately were covered by my mobility insurance. The repair and parts costs were almost entirely covered by goodwill or warranty insurance, which amounts to a total of nearly €20,000. That's quite a sum (it's almost half the vehicle price, or nearly two-thirds of the new vehicle price without extras!).

B) If you drive 50,000 km per year (or even more), you can figure out your driving style (unless you're a taxi driver or delivery person). You want to get somewhere quickly and therefore drive aggressively... which affects fuel consumption. I had a hard time keeping it under 10 liters for the first 3 years, and I was still on the road for at least 2.5-3 hours per day.

C) Then there are things that you wouldn't immediately notice (and the workshop certainly wouldn't). Often, during phone calls, I could hear the employees in the background expressing their annoyance about my repeated calls to inquire about the status of the repair (perhaps because I was frustrated about having to drive a 45 horsepower Polo nearly 300 km per day). For example, loss of power for various reasons, sometimes due to substandard work by the workshop (e.g., an incorrectly sized fuel filter gasket causing air intake and sputtering, forgetting to screw on the lower engine compartment covers, forgetting to connect the splash shield, which resulted in a complete removal of the bumper), ...

D) and of course, the seemingly irreparable problems... Every time my car is in the workshop, I mention a loss of power, and in many cases, they replace the mass airflow sensor. Well. And then there are the non-TDI-specific design flaws (e.g., doors that don't fit properly, misaligned interior trim, wind noise, dirt stains on the headliner due to air circulation inside the cabin, inconsistent panel gaps, etc.).

It seems like I've completely messed up here... This car is full of cheap parts that were apparently manufactured on a Monday. And to top it off, the workshop is terrible – every day feels like a Monday – and they're charging outrageous prices.

Okay, so much for the topic of TDI engines, and why I don't want any more... some of it has nothing to do with TDIs.

Regards,
Felix.

P.S. Please forgive me if anything is off-topic.

P.P.S. And my previous car was also a TDI (AFN, 81 kW), and I had problems with it too (transmission, turbo). Apparently, I didn't learn from that experience.

P.P.P.S. And I'm not stupid either, to the point where I would wreck a car... My Ford V6 gasoline engines have always lasted well over 280,000 or even 450,000 km, and I did a lot of the maintenance myself (especially in the years leading up to selling them).

Hello Felix,

ich meine Dein Pech liegt größtenteils am verbauten Motor.
In every crafting session in the workshop, it's easy to forget or overlook something, which can easily lead to further errors that might not have occurred otherwise.

Best regards, Rainer.

Even though it might sound like I'm being pedantic, what flaufer describes can happen with a gasoline engine as well; it's not necessarily specific to diesel engines.
Even in incompetent workshops, you'll end up paying a fortune for modern gasoline engines, largely due to the electronics which are often a source of problems.
Nur um mal aufs Thema zurückzukommen.

But otherwise, I understand you; once you've had a bad experience, you often want to try something different.

In an incompetent workshop, you'll end up paying a fortune even for modern gasoline engines, simply because of the electronics, which are often a source of errors there.
Nur um mal aufs Thema zurückzukommen.
Aber ansonten versteh ich dich, einmal schlechte Erfahrungen und man versucht dann gern mal was anderes.

Yep... I had a Lotus Elise for two years. Besides a leaky radiator (which was fixed the next day), there were absolutely NO problems with it... nothing at all, the car always ran perfectly.

But there wasn't much that could break down, and it's usually mass-produced, so nothing specific.

Regarding the topic of 'trying something different': When it comes to price, the competition can't possibly be that much worse, since they are cheaper. This relates to MY experiences, and some of them I wouldn't want to repeat.

Regards,
Felix.

flaufer wrote:

Subject: "Trying something different" - When it comes to price, the competition can't be that much worse, since it's cheaper.

I can only partially agree with you. The Golf was the cheapest option for me at the time. When you factor in that the dealer included a trailer hitch and registration fees free of charge, and considering that there were very few EU4 (tax-exempt) diesel vehicles available back then, it made sense.
Also die abnehmbare AHK kostet bei VW rund 750€ die GRA rund 200€ und die Steuerersparnis rund 600€ - sind also rund 1550€ Einpsarung - so viel billiger war dann der Mittbewerber auch nicht (nein sogar deutlich teurer!). Hinzu kommt noch eine deutllich billigere Versicherung und 1000€ Wertminderung da der Wagen einen nicht erkennbaren Unfall hatte - und für den ganzen Ärger den ich bisher hatte, hat die Werkstatt auch noch ein "Trostpflaser" oben drauf gelegt. GünSo, the price is just a matter of negotiation, and my golf club was a good deal!

Quote:

This concerns my own experiences, and some of them are things I wouldn't want to repeat.

So, I don't want to repeat my bad experiences, but I also don't want to jump into cold water.
Die Werkstatt die ich jetzt besuche ist eigentlich okay nur das Auto was ich fahre ist halt ein Montagswagen.
Every time I came out of the workshop, I had a freshly cleaned car, and the errors that were supposedly fixed never reappeared, but instead, new ones always emerged.

Regarding the price-performance ratio, I think VW is quite good! And honestly, what alternatives are there to the 1.9 TDI engines? When it comes to the availability of good used cars: I don't see that there are *that* many great TDIs available on the market as used vehicles! The more affordable ones are relatively new, but they have mileage that's beyond belief! Unfortunately! And they aren't *that* cheap either!
I've been searching for ages for a Passat TDI with 130 hp and under 100,000 km on the odometer. It was actually very difficult to find something that was also reasonably priced! After checking over 93 websites and 534 listings, I finally found one.

Regarding the quality of manufacturing, I think VW still has a lot to improve. However, overall, they are quite good vehicles with a reasonable price-performance ratio.

Well, as for repairs: anyone who can do a lot themselves naturally minimizes those costs significantly! My Passat doesn't go back to a workshop unless absolutely necessary, because I don't want to throw exorbitant amounts of money at these businesses to compensate for their often very significant incompetence!

For example, regarding prices:
"Our Golf 4 Pacific TDI models with 100 horsepower were the cheapest cars we could get. No other dealer of a different brand was able to offer us a similar wagon at such a low price. They were all more expensive, including Renault and others..."
"To get that, one even had to include the large VW navigation system and a gray interior. Actually, VW isn't that expensive compared to its competitors."

x world one wrote:

for example, regarding the prices: unsere tdi 100ps variant golf4 pacific waren die billigsten autos die wir bekommen konnten. kein anderer hädnler einer anderen marke hat uns so günstig ein variant beschaffen können. alle waren teurer, renault usw ...

"... So I'm not alone in observing the prices..."

chris11 wrote:

Just stick with your TDI. The days when gasoline engines were cheap to repair are long gone (e.g., the Opel C-Kadett 1.2N engine could be obtained from a junkyard for a few euros, plus another 50 DM for gaskets and small parts). You can expect that the TDI will run for at least 200,000 km before any major problems arise. You probably won't find a reasonably reliable gasoline engine that lasts over 200,000 km at Ford or Opel, and elsewhere they aren't exactly cheap either. VW/Audi VR6 or 1.8T engines are also something where I see the potential for repair costs being at least as high as with a 1.9 TDI.

Hi Christian,

Thank you for your kind words – I really like my tractor too, in many ways, as I already mentioned.

I will still try to take a test drive in an Astra OPC, and of course, I will pay attention to its acceleration .
I just saw that car parked on my way home (it's a beautiful metallic light blue color), and I have to say, I think it looks quite good.

But for example, with Opel, there would obviously be nothing more possible with VAGCOM... on the other hand, the question is whether you would even need something like that there .

Hello Ulf,

Here's a link http://www.autobild.de/suche/artikel.php?artikel_id=3064&artikel_seite=0 to the Astra OPC. I still think €25,000 is quite a lot of money for it. I would rather get a used car from the sporty category.

Best regards,
Christian.

chris11 wrote:

I still think 25,000 euros is a lot of money for that.

I would rather get a used car from the sporty category.
Hi Christian,

Sure, fun always costs a little more... but I've also done some further research, and in terms of price-performance-weight ratio, the OPC is quite good compared to other practical compact cars (hatchback/sedan with some trunk space, preferably front-wheel drive).

What would your alternative used option be?
-> But suggest further discussion via direct message, as that would become off-topic }.

My alternative would be a Golf 4, either as a 25th-anniversary GTI with 180 hp 1.8T (which can be tuned up to 210 hp) or a V6 (4Motion). These models, even those from 2003, are available as very well-maintained used cars for under €25,000. I would prefer one of these over the current Astra, which I don't like in terms of design at all.

I also believe that a diesel engine may not always be the best choice for large cars with less than 20000 km driven per year and without towing, for various reasons already mentioned. It also depends heavily on driving style. Those who tend to drive at higher RPMs might be surprised by the fuel consumption of a diesel engine. And all other costs are either the same or higher with a diesel.
Unfortunately, I had to total my Lupo after a storm on the A9 highway in Bavaria (I ended up driving into some water). The road was completely dry, but there was about 3 cm of water covering a section of the road for over 60 meters and with a significant downhill slope, due to an overwhelmed drainage system. It was going too fast, especially because it was downhill and the highway had a strong incline to the right. Because of this, I've also been forced to reconsider my decision about buying a new diesel car.Since I absolutely need a car that's shorter than a Corsa or Polo, otherwise you just end up running around the back of parking spaces, there weren't many options available.
Within the vehicle class, a gasoline engine with over 100 horsepower would definitely be significantly more expensive to purchase and insure than a powerful diesel engine that has been chipped (tuned). The diesel is often better for everyday use because its fuel consumption doesn't increase as drastically when you demand performance, and you don't have to rev the engine excessively, which, while fun, further increases fuel consumption.Within the VAG group, the only gasoline alternatives for me would be a Lupo 1.4 with 100 horsepower (which offers significantly worse performance in everyday driving compared to the 1.4 TDI and is more expensive to insure) or a GTI with a 1.6-liter engine (125 horsepower). The GTI has good performance, and even with reasonable driving, it can be slightly more fuel-efficient than the 100 horsepower 1.4. However, the purchase price and insurance are significantly higher (but you do get features like xenon headlights, a better suspension, and a 6-speed transmission).To put it simply: For me, the diesel engine turned out to be significantly cheaper than the gasoline version, despite the higher taxes on small cars. Furthermore, I've been discouraged by the incredibly high number of defects reported with the 1.4-liter gasoline engine from VW, including issues like dirt buildup in the throttle body/intake manifold, transmission problems, and freezing, etc.
So, I've remained loyal to the 1.4 TDI and managed to get a car that's 3 1/2 years old with only 40,000 km for a good price. So far, after driving it for 10,000 km, I haven't regretted it (although the N75 valve failed on the second day, probably due to being unused for so long).

Regards,

Olaf.

P.S.
Does anyone know if the 90 hp 1.4 TDI engine from the A2 came with a different gearbox compared to the 75 hp version?

Slightly off-topic, @olaf:

Tell me more about your 'emergency water landing,' I'm interested! Did you plunge right into the water? Did the car float? Was there any major engine damage?

I can imagine that if the engine sucks in pure water at a high RPM, it could experience a compression stroke and cause catastrophic damage to the pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, and bearings due to the impact. Another theory is that the cold water could cause stress cracks in the cylinder liner. What kind of damage did your car have?

I have unfortunately never heard of or read reports about such cases. I believe that gasoline engines might have a slightly better chance of survival in an emergency water landing, because they may stop before the column of water reaches the cylinder. The reason is that the high-voltage spark is immediately shorted out by the water.

To contribute something on the topic: For me, the economic balance between gasoline and diesel is just about even. If you only compare fuel costs and vehicle tax, the high diesel surcharge almost negates the consumption advantage (Lupo SDI). However, you don't have to think three times before quickly going shopping or combining it with your doctor's appointment the day after tomorrow.
Ein diesel-typisches Verschleißteil wurde bei mir nach 80Tkm noch nicht getauscht. Hoffen wir, daß das noch lange so bleibt. Zum Glück hab ich einen SDI ohne den ganzen Krempel wie LMM, Turbolader u.s.w. {

Curious regards.

Hello,

@idealist:

I highly doubt that 3 cm of water would affect the engine in any way or flood the intake – there must have been aquaplaning, and it was likely sealed off ("...the highway sloped steeply to the right...").

Regarding the gasoline engine, that's absolute nonsense. Even without ignition, the engine still rotates enough due to its inertia (enhanced by the car pushing it through the transmission and clutch) to experience a severe water hammer effect. This affects both gasoline and diesel engines equally, and the higher compression ratio shouldn't matter either, because neither of these engines compresses water to a point where it wouldn't cause it to seize.

@Olaf: I hope everything is alright with you after that incident!

Best regards,

Jan.