Erfahrungen mit TDI-Einfahrprogrammen? | Posts 16+

Quote:

The only argument that truly goes against my thesis is that a 220 CDI engine disassembled at 112,000 km showed no wear or excessive abrasion. Nothing measurable. All values were like those of new parts, as if the engine had just been assembled

.

OBJECTION

In fitting processes, it's not always about macroscopic changes in clearances and surface finishes, but often only about the slightest smoothing, which can only be detected by changes in the area contact ratio.
I vaguely remember reading a report in one of the last MTZ issues about the break-in behavior of crankshaft main bearing shells. It mentioned values of several tens of nanometers!!!!, which are changes that cannot be measured even with very precise micrometer screws.
But it is precisely these microscopic changes that cause a change in the frictional behavior.
In coated components (e.g., through nitrocarburizing), the running-in process only removes and smooths out surface irregularities, but does not affect the "nominal dimension."

Okay, that's enough about mechanics for now.
On the electronic side, I can't quite imagine that there would be a kind of "break-in" program, although that would certainly be desirable for many drivers .
It would be just as feasible to use electronic control (ECU) to limit boost pressure, engine speed, and fuel injection to achieve a gentle warm-up of the engine. However, neither customers nor the industry desire this. After all, the engine only needs to last until the warranty period expires. Then, workshops can make a lot of money again by replacing worn-out parts...


Regards,
Alex.

OBJECTION.


Hm, why? I didn't claim anything else. You just specified my statement. The gentler the break-in process, the more 'this roughness' will be smoothed out. If the break-in is too aggressive, entire 'mountains' can be torn away.

Of course, the running surfaces and components were not measured with a 'crude measuring device,' which is something I assumed in my previous statement. After 112,000 km, the break-in process should have been completed long ago, and wear and tear should have started to become noticeable. And that last point, the wear, was what couldn't be measured.

I could contribute a fuel log.

Engine: ASZ
Car: Golf 4
Year of construction: 10/02.
1. Inspection: March 04.
I didn't record any DZR values. Subjectively speaking, it seems to have a bit more power in the lower range, or it runs more smoothly.

The mileage curve shows that the driving profile is quite consistent. I have plotted the fuel consumption against the date to identify differences between summer and winter driving.

joegolf wrote:

I could contribute to a tank log:

Hi,

From the consistently different value between the calculated and MFA consumption, it can be inferred that a possible reduction in quantity due to an initial run program is also registered by the MFA.

If a larger amount of fuel injection was ever allowed, it would have had to manifest as a higher maximum instantaneous consumption:

When accelerating a TDI in high gears from around 1500 rpm, the instantaneous power display will rise to a maximum, which is usually in the range of 2000-2500 rpm, after which the instantaneous power consumption will decrease again.

If you have already done something like this: Have you noticed a permanent increase in the maximum value after driving approximately 10,000 km (of course, measured in the same gear each time)?

If you have already done such tests: Have you noticed a permanent increase in the maximum value after approximately 10,000 km (of course, measured in the same gear each time)?

Can I negate it? It has remained exactly the same for me. It would then change if the amount of ESP is increased, right?

Julian wrote:

ulf wrote: If you have already done such tests: Have you noticed a permanent increase in the maximum value after approximately 10,000 km (of course, measured in the same gear each time)? Can I negate it? It has remained exactly the same in my case. It would then change if the amount of ESP is increased, right?

As far as I understand the possible options described so far: yes.

ulf wrote:

If you have already done such tests: Have you noticed a permanent increase in the maximum value after approximately 10,000 km (of course, measured in the same gear each time)?

Unfortunately, I haven't tried that.

The actual achievable performance should have already increased. If the consumption has been reduced by approximately 10% with a nearly identical driving profile, that would mean that the required power output has also been reduced by a similar amount. In other words, the engine has – just roughly estimated – 10% less friction. Conversely, these additional 10% become available for acceleration at full throttle, as they are not converted into frictional heat. Ignoring any changes that depend on the engine speed. That's roughly how I see it. However, this change happens so slowly that it can only be detected using precisely defined measurement methods.

I can't quite imagine a "engine protection" program as a warm-up routine, because, in my opinion, a truly effective engine protection would require performance limitations of around 20-30%. And such a significant restriction would certainly be noticeable to everyone.

Okay, so this thread has been quiet for a few weeks now.

Therefore, I suspect that all the "important" answers have already been written.

In summary, so far, there appear to be no clear indications of a software switchover occurring at a specific time.

Too bad, but this was also a result that we had to expect.

Thank you for your participation .

Hi Ulf,

I can only contribute one thing to this.

My colleague got a brand new Seat Leon with a 150 horsepower TDI engine.
I also taught him a gentle way to break in [something].

After approximately 4500 kilometers, he finally drove at full throttle for the first time.
Approximately 220 km/h. The car always ran at 220 km/h, regardless of whether it was drafting.
behind my TT, or in a normal, straight-ahead driving position.

We always drive 25 kilometers on the highway on the way back home from work.
with the two cars. And at 11,500 km, the reading suddenly went above 225...

Now, with just under 13,000 kilometers on the odometer, the car achieves approximately...
235...

That's quite funny.

Regards,
arne

p.s. PS, horsepower, at RPM 154

Arne wrote:

After approximately 4500 km, he then drove at full throttle for the first time. Just under 220. And at 11,500 km, the reading suddenly exceeded 225... Now, with just under 13,000 kilometers on the odometer, the car achieves approximately... 235... That is very strange indeed.

Hi Arne,

This suggests that the break-in period, which is supposed to be completed around 1500 km according to the instructions, is not yet finished.

Although I don't put much stock in inferences from Vmax to horsepower, here's a note:
If the software in the Leon was indeed changed, it would likely have been done at least twice, which, in my opinion, makes the claim less likely than believable.

Quote:

p.s. PS, horsepower, at RPM 154

Hm
What do you mean by that? The DZR test?

Sure. I mean the ventilation calculator.

I'm not quite sure how to incorporate the information about the 17-inch tire size.
The brakes will definitely stop the car effectively.

arne

Hi Ulf,

I can only contribute one thing to this.

My colleague got a brand new Seat Leon with a 150 horsepower TDI engine.
I also taught him a gentle way to break in

Okay, I'm curious to see how fast mine will go when I've driven over 11,000 km; mine already showed 235 on the odometer with only 1,100 km .

Arne wrote:

Yes, of course. I mean the ventilation calculator. I'm not quite sure how to incorporate the information about the 17-inch tire size. The brakes will definitely stop you quite effectively.

Hi Arne,

1. by rolling test

2. Increase the "rollout delay" value by multiplying it by pi and the thumb value -> try setting it to 0.18 instead of 0.13.

Did you use the actual weight, including all extras, etc.?

Furthermore, please enter the number sequence from Ernst's driving chart into the yellow Nm fields.

That is likely more reliable than the values calculated according to the AFN scheme.
For example, in the case of the ASZ (presumably a specific system or device), the Nm (presumably a unit of measurement) calculated by the DZR (presumably a specific organization or standard) is, on average, 4% higher than the figures shown in the driving schedule, which correspondingly shortens the calculated time and results in a "too high scale" for the actual times.

I'm already preparing an update for the DZR.

Hi,
We've had a Passat Variant with 130 horsepower as a company car since November 2004, which I occasionally drive. I remember how disappointed I was at first, especially the lack of strong acceleration between 1500 and 2500 RPM during the first 2000 kilometers. In that range, it performed worse than a 100 horsepower TDI. Now, with 20,000 kilometers on it, it runs as you would expect from this engine, meaning on country roads when overtaking: no need to shift, just press the accelerator. Interestingly, it hardly affected the top speed. I suspect it was a break-in program, where perhaps only one parameter (e.g., turbo boost) is limited for a certain mileage. This could be achieved with a single line of code, so it wouldn't take up much memory space.

Hopefully, I've added to the confusion.

Hello.

Sundance Kid wrote:

Specifically, the power delivery between 1500 and 2500 RPM was completely absent for the first 2000 kilometers. In that range, it performed worse than a 100 HP TDI. Now, with 20000 kilometers on the odometer, it's running as one would expect from this type of engine, meaning on country roads when overtaking: no shifting, just press the accelerator. Interestingly, it hardly affected the top speed. I also suspect it was a break-in program, where perhaps only one parameter (e.g., boost pressure) is limited for a certain mileage.

Hi,

Increasing the turbo boost alone wouldn't be enough for my car, in my opinion; the torque limit would also need to be adjusted.
Because in the low-speed range, the logged torque limit is almost always at its lowest value, and this becomes even more noticeable above 2000 rpm...

"In addition, my car, when driving on the highway at 2000 rpm in 6th gear, has been showing the 'normal' maximum instantaneous fuel consumption of >13 l/100km since around 1000 km."

*dig*
Ah, there's the topic.

I just took another DZR test, with the mileage at approximately 10,500 km.

Result: approximately 140 horsepower, as has been the case for the last 5,000 kilometers.

-> It doesn't appear that anything significant happened or was "unlocked" when my car reached 10,000 miles...