Leistungsverlust im unteren Drehzahlbereich1,9 TDI-PD 130 PS | Posts 16+

@Roger:
I understand that the rod moved when the MSG (presumably a machine or system) requested it. However, even though the rod was moving (at its maximum stroke), it apparently didn't generate any pressure.

Therefore, the diagnosis: faulty charger, replacement makes sense.

On the one hand, I'm not even sure if this device, running at 1400 RPM without any load, actually generates a significant pressure difference (LD) of 100 or even 200 mbar. On the other hand, otherwise the troubleshooting program would be pointless.

On the other hand, I suspect it's less likely to be a faulty charger and more likely a problem with the VTG adjustment, such as it being disengaged or broken.

@Cetano:
Were you allowed to keep the defective charger, or was it taken away? Otherwise, we might need to investigate this further.

Anyway, congratulations that he's running again.

Regards,
Guste.

As mentioned above, I personally inspected the pole itself, although an internal inspection was not possible. I wasn't able to keep the loader; it's under warranty and will likely be sent to Wolfsburg.
But where did the delay come from? It must have been a mechanical issue in the turbocharger, otherwise the problem would still be present.

cetano wrote:

Aber woher kam die Verzögerung ???? kann ja nur eine mechanische Ursache im Lader gehabt haben , sonst würde der Fehler ja nach wie vor da sein.

Roger wrote:

How is it that the boost pressure control isn't working within the specified range, but then the turbocharger is replaced? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this suggests a potentially faulty VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) canister or a malfunctioning wastegate control valve, but not necessarily a faulty turbocharger itself. Especially since the linkage seems to be working. Was meinen die Anderen ?

So, Sepp's theory still seems the most plausible to me.

Alternatively, it could also be a very stiff turbocharger shaft, but if that were the case, it probably wouldn't have produced any boost at all.
Could the loader still spin freely?

Hello Ulf,
I didn't see the loader; it wasn't there anymore. I only heard from the mechanic that there was nothing unusual about it (although they probably didn't open it up to check).

I also suspect that Sepp's theory is closest to the truth. For whatever reason, something must have changed in the charger. Movable parts of the VTG may have become carbonized and therefore difficult to move, or there may be thermal deformation of actuators (but I have always made sure that the motor/charger can run for a while after heavy use to cool down).

Hi,

I read the posts with great interest, and maybe it's the turbocharger causing the issue in my Seat as well...

I'm now wondering if I can test this with the 'VAG-COM 4090' diagnostic tool on my Leon, or is specific software required?

I'm planning to purchase the diagnostic tool mentioned above. Can anyone tell me how to perform the Centano-shielded test with it?

Since the problem doesn't always occur, or only appears in a milder form, I'd like to test it myself first. The nearest Seat dealership is 50 kilometers away, and as always happens when you arrive at a workshop, the error probably won't occur then.

Regards,

Amd-Ede.

Hello,
ich kenne dein Problem genauso wie du es hier beschreibst. Ein Tag läuft er normal ein Tag wieder nicht. Kann passieren dass wenn man Auto kurz abstellt und wieder anmacht, dann fährt er wieder anders. Durchzug ist dann schwach und bei ca. 2000 explodiert das Teil förmlich. Man merkt recht deutlich wenn jemand nebendran sitzt. Es war bei mir das LADEDRUCKREGELVENTIL. Seit dem Tausch merkt man schon bei 1500 U/min dass was geht . Es hat aber auch sicher 6-7 Werkstattbesuche gebraucht bis die dahinter kamen !!Was bei mir aber jetzt eingetreten ist macht mich nachdenklich. Denn das Auto fuhr gerade mal 2 Wochen super und so langsam aber sicher fährt er wieder wie in alten Zeiten aber jetzt ohne ein Tag besser zu laufen. So, something else is going on with me.'It's making a rattling noise from the engine bay. I'm also experiencing constant jerking when accelerating. However, the workshop can't find anything wrong with the mass airflow sensor (MAF).'

Sure, here's the translation:

'CU Thomas' translates to 'See you, Thomas' or 'Bye, Thomas' in English.

Hello Thomas,
My problem did not occur sporadically.
Charge pressure control valve = Taktventiel for VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) turbocharger? What is your engine code?
The key points have already been mentioned above. You won't be able to proceed without diagnostic tools. Finding the error is more difficult here because it's sporadic.
Does the AGR valve close properly? Is the VTG control unit functioning correctly? Etc.
At the friendly Volkswagen dealership, a misdiagnosis (boost pressure, AGR, etc.) can be detected using the VAS 5051 diagnostic tool.

Hello,
I heard from a service manager at another Audi dealership that the workshop I went to for warranty issues doesn't have the capability to perform fault-code-driven diagnostics.
Since the manufacturer's warranty has expired, and only THIS workshop will perform any work for me free of charge after the warranty period, I would incur a financial disadvantage even though the problems occurred well within the manufacturer's warranty period. Or can I go to any other workshop and say that the problem could not be resolved during the manufacturer's warranty period, and that my current workshop is unable to solve the problem?
Is it worth contacting Audi... it's not the only problem, after all. The car has (had) many other issues!

Werde nie wieder einen Dienstwagen (welchen Dienst hat denn das Fzg geleistet?) der Audi AG kaufen .Das verspreche ich euch ! Mir wurde ein Wagen verkauft der 10 TKM hatte und bei dem von Anfang an Bremse, Bremspedal, Becherhalter, Klimabedienteil, Handyvorbereitung und Mittelarmlehne defekt waren. Was danach noch kaputt ging würde den Rahmen hier sprengen.
Ich bin ein pinkeliger Mensch aber das Problem war dass ich bei der Probefahrt zu wenig Zeit hatte um alles anzuschauen und 2. war es schon dunkel. Der Händler war aber 200 km von zu Hause entfernt und ich wollte nicht nochmal dort hinfahren. Und der Wagen war damals sehr leise und keinerlei Auffäligkeiten. Hab mich halt damals drauf verlassen dass ein Audi-Händler keinen Schrott verkauft und der Wagen von der Audi AG ist und sicher in Ordnung ist. GI would remain silent about such a mileage.

Sure, here's the translation:

'CU Thomas' translates to 'See you, Thomas' or 'Bye, Thomas' in English.

Now it's happened to me too.
Power deficiency in the range up to 2000 rpm.
It drives like a wastegated diesel.
It started gradually. Maximum speed and acceleration from 2000 RPM are fine.
The usual suspects have been checked or replaced.
LMM (Mass Air Flow sensor) OK, LLT (Charge Air Cooler) OK, temperatures plausible for a cold engine, LD (Load Dump) within the maximum range, OK. Charge air cooler piping fitted with new O-rings. MWB 11 (likely a valve or actuator) is at its basic setting, operates smoothly and quickly from stop to stop, but only provides an increase in pressure of approximately 80 mbar.
Can the VTG (variable turbine geometry) adjust itself, or can excessively high exhaust temperatures deform the turbine blades (tuning)?
I know VW would replace the charger, and I'm also considering doing that myself. Or should I try adjusting the VTG rod instead?

Es ist wirklich ein Trauerspiel. Immer häufiger sind doch die Turbolader das Problem, besonders diese schlechte VTG Technik. Sollten diese Leistungsverluste oder der fehlende Biss durch verstellte Einstellschrauben oder VTG Stangen kommen, kann ich eigentlich nur von schlampiger Endkontrolle im Hause Garrett ausgehen. Jeder Turbolader sollte mit einem Prüfcertifikat ausgeliefert werden, mit Datum und Unterschrift vom Prüfer. Diese Einstellung der Anschlagschraube und der VTG Stange haben so strenge Vorschriften, das Garrett es verbietet, solche Lader zu reparieren. Desweiteren möchte ich mal wissen wie sich diese beiden Dinge selbst verstellen können. B"On my new turbo, both were secured with extremely strong thread locker, making it unlikely that they would come loose on their own.""External factors could be causing the problem. It's possible that material is wearing out inside the turbocharger, and the factory settings are no longer correct. However, if this happens with less than 100,000 kilometers (approximately 62,000 miles) on the odometer, it's simply shoddy workmanship!!!"
Perhaps it's worth looking at alternatives from KKK or other manufacturers, or alternatively (with slightly less low-end power), take a look at the Wastegate turbocharger range. I've only heard good things about the GT20, even on tuned TDIs; it's supposed to be very durable and reliable.
Is it possible to install the electronically controlled turbocharger (from the 2.0L 170PS TDI engine) in the 1.9L variants and adapt the corresponding maps to the electronic control system?

Hello Felix,
In the previous posts, everything has essentially already been said.
Here's my opinion again, in a "concise" manner.

Ich nehme an, dass sich durch thermische Verformung (mechan.Stellglied) oder durch Verkokung (veränderter Anschlag z.B.) der Regelweg des Stellringes über Kurbeltrieb im Lader (welcher die Laderschaufeln verdreht) gegenüber dem Regelweg der Unterdruckdose verändert hat(ich setze voraus, dass Du die Freigängigkeit des Regelweges ander VTG Dose kontrolliert hast). Also, wenn die Unterdruckdose die vollen -0,65 bar anliegen hat, geht sie in Anschlagstellung "auf" aber die Laderschaufeln stehen nur "kurz vor auf" . das bedeutet, der Lader bringt im unteren Bereich ab 1500 u. nicht die volle Leistung (verhalten wie wastegate). je nach der realen Stellung der Leitschaufeln stellt sich der Aufbau des Ladedruckes dann entsprechend später ein. It was around 2 for me.000 u and then abruptly (which, in extreme cases, can lead to overshoots and emergency shutdowns).

I assume (please correct me if I'm wrong!) that the actual mechanical stop for "open" and "closed" in the control box "occurs" there. On the test bench, a length-adjustable push rod is then used to set the desired guide vane position (maximum or minimum airflow) for the respective end stop on the VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) unit. (The adjustment ranges are "synchronized"), so both states are always adjusted equally.Unless there is a deliberate interference of the locking ring in the charging system (which, based on the logic, would be "too" high), the VTG container would start operating regardless of the length of the control rod. This would mean that the maximum and minimum settings could be adjusted independently of each other, or, alternatively, only the maximum setting could be adjusted.

This needs to be clarified... (who can help?)

After that, you could try, in small steps, to slightly increase the opening of the VTG control valve ("open" position, -0.65 bar) (the VTG control valve works with tension, so shorten the control rod), but always ensuring that the "closed" position or at least a similar position is maintained, so that the MSG (Main System Governor) can always reduce the charging pressure in any situation (see above).


In short: I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions (regarding punctures in the tire and/or the loader). If I know what I'm doing, I would then try to fix it, but cautiously and in small steps.

By the way, the symptoms occasionally reappear for me, depending on my driving style and the engine temperature.

edit:
I checked the repair manual from VW, and there's no information about it. It only mentions that the entire turbocharger unit needs to be replaced (depending on the model, this includes the exhaust manifold).

cetano wrote:

Ich nehme an (bitte korrigiert mich, wenn ich falsch liege !), dass der eigentliche mechanische Anschlag für "auf" und "zu" in der Regeldose "stattfindet".

No: both blade angles are determined by the geometry of the turbine casing, with the sensitive "admission" blade being adjustable via a set screw.

The (uncovered) lever has a longer throw than the VTG lever on the loader side (approximately 13 to 10 mm, if I recall correctly).

See also the troubleshooting guide for the function and configuration of VTG chargers.

I solved it.
Compared to another loader I have on the shelf (which has a VTG clip), the pivot lever's adjustment screw was much further out. I turned it back slightly and also shortened the rod by one rotation.
The engine now responds excellently to the accelerator again and also comes out of the low RPM range smoothly.
The duty cycle in the P-max range, at high rotational speed, changed from approximately 60% to approximately 70%.
Therefore, it is still within the normal range.

Was was that wear compensation?

felix wrote:

War das nun Verschleißkompensation?

If the problem didn't arise suddenly by turning the screws in the other direction, but rather developed gradually: yes.

Here's another question about the direction of rotation of the set screw:

Quote:

Im Vergleich zu einem weiteren Lader, den ich im Regal habe (hat VTG Klemmer) war die Anschlagschraube des Hebels viel weiter draußen. Ich habe sie etwas zurückgedreht und auch die Stange um eine Umdrehung gekürzt.

Adjustment screw "turned back"... clockwise, in the direction of pull on the VTG canister? (Reducing the cross-section between the guide vanes?)

Yes, the VTG valve can now be adjusted further. The SIW (charge air cooler) is set to maximum boost pressure and minimum pressure. This can also be seen in the basic setting of the MWB 11 (turbocharger control unit).