Der Drehmoment-Quatsch | Posts 80+

Hi Uwe!

'When you compare it to a 110 (model), each individual gear in the gasoline engine has a longer ratio. Maybe someone can provide more specific details, but I think that the third gear of the 1.8T is enough to reach up to 150 km/h. The third gear of the 110 goes up to 117 or something like that, so if you shift gears at the same speeds, the 1.8T loses some of its potential power.'

And then the gasoline engine has a larger turbo lag... Variable turbine geometry (VTG) technology is not yet used in gasoline engines due to the higher exhaust temperatures.

And then the 110 probably has a real power output of 120 horsepower, or even more.

The last two reasons clearly suggest that choosing a diesel engine is the right decision if you want to enjoy turbocharged driving. (Not to mention the fuel consumption).

While the narrow speed ranges of each gear in a diesel engine might seem like a disadvantage, they are actually a significant benefit for caravan drivers.
But sometimes they can be annoying... like in the discussion about a long 5th gear... Or if you have a more powerful TDI engine, the wheels might spin in 2nd gear... but then you have to shift to 3rd at only 70 km/h.
Whether you like it or not is a matter of personal taste.
'Personally, I wouldn't choose either the 1.8T or the 150hp TDI engine. (But a 145hp chip-tuned AFN engine in a G3... with that weight... that would be something special.)'
Best regards, Ernst.

That makes sense, but...

...where can I get a housing voucher?

Best regards,
Uwe

Ernst S. wrote:

But a 145HP chip for an AFN engine in a G3... considering the weight... that would be something. Best regards, Ernst

.

Hi Ernst,

I elaborated on your thoughts a bit more in the engine comparison thread, but only using a power box...

Why does the discussion suddenly continue with the engine comparison here ?

Why does the discussion suddenly continue with the engine comparison here ?


Hi Ulf!

We want to set a new, unbeatable record with this thread . We're about to reach 100 responses...

No, I'm serious, we could really end this discussion now... anyone who is interested can already see from the previous responses what all needs to be considered when comparing a high-revving engine with a system that produces a lot of torque. And that any manufacturer's specifications must first be put into the right context.
And in the other thread, it's only about TDIs. That's how it should be... we're not on www.benzinschrauber.de here.
Best regards,
Certainly! Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hi Ernst,

I still need to send a post here... because of the topic, and because I was at a conference all day today, which is why I couldn't post earlier .

I'll send you the translations for the 1.8T Passat when I have them (which might take a while), but there's something to look forward to in the meantime.

I think 150 for the third one is too much; that would be 2100 at a rate of 50 each, which is almost on par with TDI levels. However, since the fifth one in the TDI series is significantly longer, I suspect the same might apply to the third one.

But we don't have to speculate, because Seat is actually more generous than VW in this regard, and the 1.8T engine is also available in the Ibiza - with a very specific gear ratio.

Take a look at this:

http://media.seat.com/en/Barcelonannr01/aleman/caracteristicas/ibiza.html

This is everything the heart desires . This applies to the older Ibiza models, which some of you have...

If it's supposed to be the new one (because of the data regarding the PDs):

http://media.seat.com/en/paris2002/aleman/deibiza.pdf

Best regards,

January.

Hi Jan!

'Actually, your calculations are almost exactly right... the Ibiza 1.8T can reach 150 km/h in third gear at 6200 RPM, and 50 km/h at less than 2100 RPM.'

'But that's the 5-cylinder engine with 156 horsepower, not the 4-cylinder engine from a Golf or Passat.'
I hope there isn't too much of a difference.

And then I can imagine that at 50 km/h, with a gear ratio designed for 150 km/h, it won't accelerate as quickly as a TDI with a third gear geared for 120 km/h.

Generally speaking, this applies to gasoline engines: the more horsepower they have, the longer the gear ratios tend to be. However, the 6-speed transmission will likely become more prevalent as well...
Best regards, Ernst.

I once, just for fun, compared my old-fashioned-grandfather's-box(tm) to the 90HP in this Excel sheet... and I am now extremely confused.

'With only 90 horsepower, that car wouldn't stand a chance... but the reality is exactly the opposite: even the 'old grandpa's car' couldn't compete against a Z1 when the '80s-era sign appeared in Spessart. And the recent attempts confirm this. The Octavia, with its 90 horsepower, performs on par with or even slightly better than the 'old grandpa's car'. Even those with manual transmissions are having a hard time.'

Since I have absolutely no idea about Excel: Ernst, did you factor in any gear ratios or anything like that? Or what's going on there?

CU Gremlin.

Hi Ernst,

I have to correct you again... twice in a row .

The 1.8T engine in the Passat is a 20-valve engine, meaning it has 5 valves per cylinder, and is therefore very similar to the one found in the Ibiza (except for the 6 horsepower difference, but that's just a detail; Audi also offers it with 180 or more horsepower). It's likely the same in the Golf, where all 1.8T engines have 20 valves. I am 100% certain about this regarding the Passat, as it actually says "20V" on the engine cover (and also on the Ibiza Cupra, by the way).

Secondly, the maximum torque of 210 Nm in the 1.8T Ibiza is achieved between 1800 and 2200 RPM, which corresponds to approximately 50 km/h, a value very similar to that of the TDI. The TDI's 1900 RPM (maximum torque) also falls just below 50 km/h. Therefore, when both are driven at full throttle in third gear at 50 km/h, they should perform roughly equally well. The slightly higher torque of the TDI is compensated for by its somewhat longer gearing.

Best regards,

Jan.

P.S. When translating between "short" and "long" gear ratios, it's better to specify that you mean relative to the maximum speed (Vmax) in that particular gear. Otherwise, it can be confusing. While the TDI engines have a longer translation ratio (engine revolutions per wheel revolution), they appear shorter from your perspective because they don't rev as high as gasoline engines.

Hi Jan!

You're right, that's also a 5-valve engine in the Passat.

It's likely true that the third gear in a TDI engine reaches approximately 120 km/h, while the one in a 1.8T engine is around 150 km/h.
And both of them have an engine speed of approximately 2000 RPM at a speed of about 50 km/h.
So, the 1.8T engine delivers the same amount of power to the road as the 110hp TDI, just like you said... that's what I meant too.

The 1.8T needs to shift into second gear to overtake the 110hp TDI at 50 km/h. With that, it can then accelerate up to around 100 km/h, etc.
I also think it's terrible; it should have a 6-speed transmission.
Best regards,
Ernst.
And from now on, I'll always say 'long stride' when referring to speed. The word 'long' only really fits in the context of a speed range. And I'll only use the word 'translation' when I specifically mean the gears.