Wastegate TDI: Mechanical VTG Conversion

HI,

inspired by the finding from https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=11836
It's worth trying to fit a variable geometry turbocharger (VTG) to a TDI engine that currently uses a wastegate.

It's a shame that you have to "only" miss out on the N75 and the EDC.
(edit: I meant that you can save the trouble of converting these parts to the usual VTG variants. Because the N75 is different for VTG engines, and you need an EDC for a VTG engine.)

You still need to replace or adjust the exhaust manifold, turbo, and muffler.

Does anyone have a VNT15 with too much curvature? I have a 1Z .

m;

dieselmartin wrote:

Perhaps it would be worth trying to fit a VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) to a Wastegate-TDI engine. Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. Does anyone have a VNT15 with

too much curvature?
Hi Martin,

You won't be able to do that with an Ori-VNT15.
At the very least, the can would have to be different: one where the rod is retracted under zero pressure and begins to extend when the target (over) pressure is reached – essentially working in the opposite way to the VAG-VTG cans.
And then, the pressure-travel curve must be adjusted to match the stroke requirements of VTG .

Hi,

That sounds like it could be achieved with relatively simple mechanical adjustments. Basically, you just need to redirect the pressure from the pressure vessel to the lever of the VTG (Valve Train Gear), ensuring that the direction and stroke are correct.

What about the power requirements? Does a wastegate require more power to operate compared to a variable geometry turbocharger (VTG)?

Best regards,

Jan.

Are you bored ?

Without the EDC, the 1Z engine won't produce any power. To move the boost pressure control to an external system, you need...
'Some reprogramming of the engine control unit (ECU) will be necessary to turn off the yellow warning light.'


Best regards,
Rudi

No, Rudi.

Keep the 1Z as is, as much as possible.

So, you're telling me to operate a VTG loader like a complete idiot.

You can take the pressure vessel from the waste loader. The rest (i.e., the EDC) remains inside.

Okay, here's the translation:

"Something else:"

Just installed the MSA15 - it's working well.
Releases a brutal 38.8 mg/H of formaldehyde in the torque wrench test. The AF value is only 35.4.

The spray-KF results also look good.

Besides the delayed response of the control unit (perfect!! No electronic shut-off valve!!) and a relatively high starting amount, I didn't notice any other differences.

m;

That thing about the MSA15 sounds good .

But what's the point of regulating the charger with overpressure?
You will already encounter significant problems mechanically, because the pressure vessel would have to...
(compared to the suction cup), it should be positioned directly on the opposite side of the charger.
to maintain the same direction of movement.

It wouldn't be cheaper either (as a regulating valve for normal VTG turbocharger operation, it can...).
AGR parts should be used, as they would otherwise just corrode unnecessarily.

Best regards,
Rudi

I'm just going to jump in here for a moment. Question about a turbo .

Has anyone already installed a GT/VTG 18? Or converted it to a hybrid turbo? Or, to put it another way, has anyone ever replaced the electro-mechanical VTG control system with a 'normal' system using a pressure sensor? I'm wondering if it's feasible to replace the exhaust manifold, etc., and convert it to a 'normal' turbo, such as a GT17. That would then be a GT1852V.

Regarding the topic, a 90PS wastegate has already been successfully converted to a VTG. I don't recall off the top of my head whether it was a 1Z or AHU engine. However, it is supposed to be working now.

Hi,

Quote:

You will already encounter significant problems mechanically, because the pressure vessel would have to... (compared to the suction cup), it should be positioned directly on the opposite side of the charger. to maintain the same direction of movement.

Well... the hobbyist doesn't have to worry about mass production costs... so surely it's possible to create a rod that can be used to control it. Perhaps it would also be a possibility to use a Bowden cable against a suitably sized spring, because that would keep a large part of the mechanism a good distance away from the loader. I also think a small lever for reversing direction should be feasible.

Quote:

Or, to put it another way, has anyone ever replaced the electromechanical VTG (Variable Transmission Gear) control system with a "standard" system that uses a pressure capsule?

Why actually? Couldn't the control signal for this device be derived from the "normal" control valve's signal with less effort? It's already a pulsed DC voltage... you could easily create an analog signal from that and convert it into whatever format the modern control system requires.

Best regards,

Jan.

[edit] Whoever (can) read correctly... [/edit]
If the electromechanical adjustment mechanism has a motor controlled by an H-bridge...
'...would require at least a suitable power amplifier and a controller to operate it.'
(to be) integrated to move away from simple proportional control (more PWM equals more pressure).
to create a control system with reverse direction functionality...

Regarding the mechanics... it will probably work somehow, but what's the point? It can only be worse than what already exists.
(Under pressure) solution will be found.

Best regards,
Rudi

Well, you both have good ideas .

Currently, I'm only interested in the line of reasoning.

The charger in its current original form is completely unsuitable for installation in a Golf/Passat/Ibiza, etc. The connections on the exhaust side, etc., are completely different. Also, the physical size itself is somewhat bulky .


Therefore, my thought was to replace the exhaust and pressure-side housings. Adding the 'standard' VTG canister would then make it almost possible to install. Okay, upon closer consideration, the oil connection would also be a problem. It has completely different connections.


Good problem solved. We'll just leave that, as something that was poorly thought out, in the room .

Hello fellow crafters!

Why are you pursuing this complicated approach to solving the problem?

The effort required to retrofit the "vacuum system" (vacuum reservoir, check valve, lines) is relatively small. Then, you can use the N75 valve from the AFN model and control the turbocharger as intended.

It may be necessary to adjust the software or replace the MSG (Main System Board) to adapt the key settings to the desired printing pressure.

I did that on my AGR, which originally came with a wastegate turbocharger. Now it has a VTG turbocharger and is properly controlled via vacuum.
Converting to VTG is not rocket science.

Regards,
Alex.

I still find the approach of controlling a VTG turbocharger with a wastegate EDC very interesting. You could experiment with a turbocharger from the online marketplace (with 300,000 km for 10 euros) for that purpose. }

'Wastegate EDC' does not exist. Starting with MSA15, the type of turbocharger can be configured in the engine control unit (ECU).
At the time when the older control units were being developed, VTGs (Variable Transmission Gears) did not yet exist.

Best regards,
Rudi