Strange readings

Hello fellow DIY enthusiasts,

The discussion about torque has been on my mind, so I compiled the values for acceleration and elasticity in a table (only G4 TDI models).

[img][/img]

Notably, the 100 hp engine exhibits very similar performance figures (with a difference of only about 0.5 seconds) to the 110 hp and 115 hp engines. In terms of acceleration, the 110 hp engine even performs worse! The distance to the 90 horsepower engine is then enormous in comparison.

Conclusion:
Either the 100 horsepower engine has significantly more power than stated, or the 115 horsepower engine is "detuned." The difference should be more noticeable. The 110 horsepower engine suffers from a "lack of torque" (although we can hardly talk about a lack when we're talking about over 200 Nm) and is therefore inferior to the PD engine in terms of acceleration, despite having 10% more power and nearly the same maximum output. Torque.

Question for ULF:
What consequences should this behavior have in your routing calculator?
(I haven't tried it yet.)

The table shows data from G4!!http://mitglied.lycos.de/kraftbertil/Bilder/TDI_Tabelle.jpg{MARKER}

Hello!

Do they all have the same transmission? The same weight? The same tires?
Have all the tests been conducted under the same ambient temperatures?

(I'm sure everyone has managed to get it to operating temperature before.)

If all these values are entered correctly into the ventilation calculator, the calculator will show the available excess capacity for each case.

The problem with these kinds of tests is that they compare entire vehicles, not just the engines. And then, poor Ulf has to remove all the vehicle-specific data to arrive at the engine values.

Best regards, Ernst.

Hi Bertil,

I can only agree with Ernst.

Specifically, as long as the gear ratios (or speed at x rpm) and weight are not precisely known, it is possible to create a vehicle that appears to be a "torque monster" with a slightly shorter 4th gear, but which will "run out of breath" (i.e., reach its maximum speed) earlier, requiring the use of 5th gear. Need for gang.

Hello Ernst, Ulf,


I did not perform these measurements.

These are factory specifications that are always determined under comparable and predefined environmental conditions. So, they are already the same. Regarding the weight: Vehicle manufacturers always use the lightest base variant, so the weights should be within a range of approximately +-20-30kg. However, I believe that the newer PD models (100, 130, 150 hp) may have a weight disadvantage due to the included standard equipment and comfort features. Gear ratio: I am currently checking this. The PD has a slightly lower maximum engine speed than the VP37 engine (4600-5000 rpm). Since the top speeds are within the same range (100 hp PD = 188 km/h), the PD likely has a longer final gear ratio, which is also a disadvantage for the PD. The 130 and 150 models have a 6-speed gearbox, which would likely make a comparison difficult (that's why I didn't include those engines in my comparison). Regarding tire sizes, I'm confident that the G4 TDI uses the same base size (195/65R15) at least up to the 115 model, so there should be a similar range of options available.

I specifically mentioned that the data is exclusively from a GOLF 4 - so it's always the same vehicle! A comparison should therefore be straightforward.

Hi!

I compared the 100 hp PD and the 110 hp versions, and you specifically questioned those figures. I assumed the same weight for both and provided a translation for each that results in a speed of 75 km/h at 2000 RPM.
(around 170 km/h top speed... that could be plausible for 4th gear)

'Then, the recommended tire pressure for speeds of 60-100 km/h is...'
100 horsepower: 7.8 seconds.
110 horsepower: 8.3 seconds.

So, your values are understandable. Perhaps the 110 hp version has a slightly longer gear ratio, which increases its acceleration time to 8.5 seconds.
So, the 100 horsepower PD is truly the ideal vehicle for those who like to shift into fourth gear even at 60 km/h.

Let's continue: 100-150 km/h.
100 horsepower: 13.8.
110 horsepower: 12.0


Ulfsche DZR with speeds of 50-100 km/h in the third gear.
100 horsepower: 6.9.
110 horsepower: 6.6

Without evaluating these vehicles, I find the 50-100 km/h test in 3rd gear to be the most important (overtaking maneuver on a country road).
And if I had to choose one of these vehicles, I would go with...
150 horsepower, it's obvious .
Best regards, Ernst.

Hi Ernst,

Everything is correct. I just found it strange that the difference between the 100, 110, and 115 hp engines is so small (especially the last one). Furthermore, the 100 hp engine should have replaced the 90 hp engine, but based on the data I'm looking at, it seems to have replaced the 110 hp engine instead. This further widened the gap between it and the SDI (smallest diesel).

In the GF forum, someone wrote about the three engine options: "...the 100 hp engine is for practicality, the 130 hp engine is for fun, and if you have enough money, you should get the 150 hp engine..." I completely agree with that.


Sure, here's the translation:

"Addendum:"
G4 empty weights.

90 horsepower - 1280 kg
100 horsepower - 1291 kg
110 horsepower - 1286 kg
115 hp - 1307 kg
130 horsepower - 1309 kg
150 horsepower - 1343 kilograms.

Hello everyone,

If my memory serves me correctly, someone here once wrote that the 110 series should actually be completely phased out with the introduction of PD technology. However, it remained in use because vehicle fleets had better experiences with it than with supposedly more maintenance-intensive PD systems, making it cheaper to operate.

Therefore, I think that, from a policy perspective, he is more of a relic than something that was properly planned.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi Bertil!

Sorry, I forgot something important.
If everyone has the translation I provided, the 60-100 test will take place at speeds of 1600-2700 RPM.

The 100PS engine consistently delivers its peak torque within a specific RPM range.
The 110 horsepower version doesn't perform very well in the range of 1600 to 1900. And from 2200 to 2600, he can't really offer much resistance to the 100 either.
The 115 model achieves its 285 Nm of torque at a specific point around 1900 rpm, and the torque drops more sharply in both directions. (At 1600 rpm, it's only around 200 Nm).

And then the Ulfsche DZR clearly explains why the 115 model only offers a slightly better acceleration compared to the 100 model, which initially seemed strange to me after reading about the peak torque. However, between the years 1600 and 1800, the 115 simply couldn't compete.
Best regards.
Ernst.

Jan6K wrote:

... If my memory serves me correctly, someone here once wrote that the 110 series should actually be completely phased out with the introduction of PD technology, but it remained in use because fleets had better experiences with it than with supposedly more maintenance-intensive PD systems, meaning it was cheaper to operate.

Hi Jan,

Okay, I wrote that before...

The VW 110 model has also been discontinued since 05/02.