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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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04-09-2008, 14:12 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Hello,
Here's a quick read for those who are interested:
I am sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.
Is there any information available yet that, instead of the previously regular "performance killers" called LMM, we are now seeing "coked" (or fouled) PDE?
Or, to put it another way, can they really be restored to their original condition using an ultrasonic bath (excluding, of course, erosive wear)? Gruß Ulf
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matthiasTDI96 Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 02/27/2003 Posts: 5886 Karma: +251 / -0
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04-09-2008, 14:27 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Well, I've heard about that too. There was also an article about that problem in the latest (or now the previous) MTZ magazine. This problem is unfortunately well-known among manufacturers, and they are actively searching for effective solutions to prevent these deposits. If I remember correctly, it was only about the piezo injectors. I can look that up again. |
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christians Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 09/05/2002 Posts: 2105 Karma: +17 / -0 Location: Sauerland
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04-09-2008, 16:41 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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To understand this, we first need to know how the coked-up particulate diesel filters (PDEs) were used. The question is why PDEs of the newer type specifically, and is there perhaps a connection with the excessive regeneration cycles of these engines? Problems like these are largely unknown in V6 TDI engines with common rail injection.
I only know that the pressure build-up at low RPM is quite modest compared to VP and CR. Gruß Christian
A6 BPP, Ex-A6 AKN (Gurke), Ex-Audi100 92 AAT (5Zyl.) |
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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04-09-2008, 16:51 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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My information includes the PPDs.
Symptoms:
After 30,000 km, acceleration decreases, and the maximum speed is not reached.
Determine:
(or, depending on the context, other options like:
* Identify
* Ascertain
* Establish
* Find out)
VW/Audi then measures the lambda value in the fourth gear at 3500-3800 RPM.
If the reading is greater than 1.4, which indicates too much air, then run a cleaning cycle with Feroclean in an ultrasonic bath for the nozzles.
I have PPDs (presumably referring to particulate diesel filters) and still 1,32 remaining (presumably referring to the remaining capacity or lifespan), but I had that value already at 23,000 km, which is when I first heard about the injectors potentially being clogged.
It mainly occurs in "representative mode," meaning you should always be pushing the limits and going full throttle on the track.
m; Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was. |
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bastion Blaumann

Joined: 11/21/2005 Posts: 644 Karma: +6 / -1
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04-09-2008, 16:55 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Which oxygen sensor (lambda sensor) is used in my car? A4 Limu 07/96 AHU@110PS 192tkm 08/05-05/08
A4 Avant 08/01 AWX 05/08- |
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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04-09-2008, 17:33 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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I don't know if the AWX reveals that.
My and related (BMP, BLS) files reveal this information in section 074.3.
m; Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was. |
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bastion Blaumann

Joined: 11/21/2005 Posts: 644 Karma: +6 / -1
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04-09-2008, 17:56 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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If not, how can one calculate that? A4 Limu 07/96 AHU@110PS 192tkm 08/05-05/08
A4 Avant 08/01 AWX 05/08- |
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matthiasTDI96 Profi-Schrauber

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05-09-2008, 7:36 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Okay, our older TDIs also don't have a lambda sensor. The exact calculation is clear in principle. But where do you get the precise data to have reliable decimal places? I don't think that will work. You only need the engine speed, turbo boost pressure, and fuel injection amount. However, you would then have a static value. Who knows how everything ignites and reacts inside the combustion chamber. That's why the lambda sensor is there.
"Because a calculation to check if the nozzles are clogged would require information, essentially a variable: 'nozzles are clogged,' and without that, you can't proceed. However, since the AWX is similar to the ASZ, I would simply say: 'This doesn't happen with us.'" Perhaps it's worth considering between 160,000 km and 200,000 km whether to have the PD injectors refurbished... that would be the extent of my concerns, as long as the low-pressure fuel pump is working properly. |
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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05-09-2008, 8:44 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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dieselmartin wrote: | Symptoms:
After 30,000 km, acceleration decreases, and the maximum speed is not reached.
It is mainly likely to occur in "representative mode," meaning always running at full throttle on the track. | . . . while the highest (sustained) surface temperatures occur in the combustion chamber.
[Speculation ON] In this process, the diesel fuel that flows along the outer surface of the bore holes, but is not injected into the combustion chamber by the spray nozzle, carbonizes around the nozzle openings. The coke rings that form around the nozzle openings alter the shape of the spray patterns, which leads to poorer atomization and reduced performance. [Speculation OFF] Gruß Ulf
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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05-09-2008, 10:45 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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[Audi explanation on]
The drilling process itself causes the boreholes to have a smaller cross-section.
It explicitly does NOT refer to the external events surrounding the hole.
[Audi off]
Okay, so as if you were putting an AFN 1Z engine in. Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was. |
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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05-09-2008, 11:22 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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dieselmartin wrote: | The drillings themselves are becoming narrower, resulting in a smaller cross-section.
It explicitly DOES NOT concern the external events surrounding the hole. | OK, I can roughly imagine that.
Since the nozzle hole is not shielded from the combustion chamber, the hot gases can reach the diesel fuel that is still present in the bores, potentially causing it to partially coke.
Comparison: You hold a Bunsen burner underneath a closed faucet (where there is usually a thin film of water), boil away the water, and thus form layers of scale on/inside the faucet opening. Gruß Ulf
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teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
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05-09-2008, 20:27 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Hi,
and how do products like Tune Up and similar ones work? They also promise good cleaning results for VAG and Opel workshops. Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM |
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vagtuning Guest
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05-09-2008, 20:35 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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Since when have Polos been equipped with Siemens Piezo injectors?
It exclusively uses piezoelectric components from Siemens (170 Piezoresistive Sensors).
like BMN, BMR, etc.
Standard magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) equations don't have that problem, at least.
I haven't encountered any yet.
I think it was more likely a problem with a sealing ring, or they just told him complete nonsense. |
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mullemaus Guest
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10-09-2008, 23:24 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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So are my findings. Does the PPD affect the 125KW?  |
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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11-09-2008, 8:33 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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I have PPD.
I have 125 kW.
I VCDS.
Okay, I'm going to get a bottle of "Liqui Moly Diesel... stuff" and do a lambda log before and after using it.
Then we'll know if these "miracle products" actually work.
m; Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was. |
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pschaefer Blaumann

Joined: 08/21/2002 Posts: 300 Karma: +3 / -0
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11-09-2008, 9:03 Subject: PDE cleaning subscription for the latest TDIs? |
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dieselmartin wrote: | My information includes the PPDs.
It mainly occurs in "representative mode," meaning you should always be pushing the limits and going full throttle on the track.
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I can't confirm that. I usually drive around 160-180 km/h on the highway, if possible. That's not exactly full throttle, and yet my injectors are still getting clogged. The improvement in performance and comfort after the cleaning at 60,000 km was *very* noticeable.
I once wrote something about this here:
Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate.
Regards,
Peter. *Die Fahrbahn ist ein graues Band, weisse Streifen, grüner Rand* |
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