AEL engine in T4 - Ex-ACV

Hi,
Are there any fundamental electrical issues with operating a permanent magnet synchronous motor (PMSM) on the electrical system of an ACV (presumably a type of vehicle or machine)?
Specifically, I'm referring to the fuel injection pump and some of the sensors installed on the engine. Is the ESP compatible with the MSG from ACV?
"Especially the connectors on the ESP and the pin assignments would be important there."
To the best of my knowledge, both the injector control solenoid and the crankshaft sensor have the same connectors and pin assignments on all older TDI engines.
ACV = MSA 15
AEL = MSA 11

I am familiar with the mechanical differences (oil dipstick, crankcase ventilation, water flange on the cylinder head, etc.).

The AEL has larger nozzles than the ACV, but the turbocharger is the same in both cases (KKK14 in both).
Is there any tuning software available for the ACV engine that would take into account the larger injectors from the AEL engine?

Regards,
Jens.

If my research is correct, there are no fundamental differences in the injection pump between the AAT/AEL and ACV models. Whether the very earliest AAT models still had a quantity control with a potentiometer is something I am not aware of. If HDK is present, then the VEPs are initially fundamentally compatible.
Any potential differences in the pump connector (10-pin version, 8+2) can be compensated for.
The Audi VP37 is different from the one used in the T4 because it has a different rated speed. Audi 2300, T4 1750.
Piston diameter: both 11mm.

Whether it truly works well together can probably only be determined through practical experimentation. The varying rotation speeds of the VEP are quite significant.
A T4-VEP in the AEL would not be possible, but the reverse might be.

How about a VP37 from an AHY?

Hello,

I would advise against experimenting with parts from different engines that have been pieced together, because even with the appropriate know-how, the time required for such endeavors can quickly become excessive, and the final result will either be prohibitively expensive and of very poor quality.

Best regards, Rainer.

Rüdi wrote:

How about a VP37 from an AHY?

All left-hand thread VEP engines from Volkswagen commercial vehicles (applies to all VEP 5-cylinder engines in the T4 and LT2 models, which are quite a few different engine codes) have a relatively low rated speed of 1750 RPM.
Only in Audi (and Volvo) cars were VEPs (Voltage Early Peak) with 2300 (or even 2400 in the 1T model) used.
I would need to do some research on the industrial and marine engines, as I haven't looked into those yet.

Since these are parts and vehicles older than 20 years, their current residual values are quite low. If it's not necessarily a daily driver, you can definitely indulge your passion for tinkering and customizing. You just can't do a cost-benefit analysis, and of course, you shouldn't expect any guarantees of success.

The older TDI engines are still relatively robust and can tolerate some deviations from the ideal operating parameters. Of course, one shouldn't have any requirements regarding exhaust emissions.

"I used a KKK14 turbocharger (water-cooled) on my 1Z engine for 10 years, and it worked without any problems. You can definitely feel the inertia of the older turbo design, but it runs fine without any issues." The old turbo (from the Golf 2) could be connected normally, and the control system worked fine.

P.S. After researching with VW Marine:
The following were used:
0460415980
Manufacturing position, November 2017.
VE5/11E2000L902

and
0460415981
VE5/11E1800L901

Okay, so already different VEP values compared to the LT2, T4, or Audi. Most marine engines have the aforementioned VEP (Variable Engine Power), which means a rated speed of 2000 RPM.

P.P.S.
Industrial engine BBR (manufactured until 2008, used in the Pinzgauer 2, among other applications).
0986440562
VE5/11E1750L714-1

"Therefore, the operating speed is the same as in the T4."

I mentioned the AHY because it also has a variable turbo geometry (VTG) system for charge pressure control, similar to the AEL, and therefore the engines are somewhat comparable.

No, all Audi 5-cylinder TDI engines have a standard wastegate turbo, including the AEL.
The KKK K14 was almost always used, while the AEL sometimes used the KKK K16.
The AHY was the first 5-cylinder engine with VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry), and when it was introduced, the 5-cylinder TDI engines in the Audi A6 were just being phased out.
The VTG turbocharger never made its way into any Audi models with a 5-cylinder engine. The Audi 5-cylinder engines always remained at an MSA of 11, which likely indicates that the decision to discontinue their production was made well in advance.
I don't know what Volvo later included in the V70.

Hi Jens,

It seems we are dealing with a very similar topic. Should you also be putting the 5-cylinder engine into your T3 Syncro?

I have dismantled a Volvo 850 and a V70, and I have the two AEL engines lying around. The 850 has an MSA15.7 engine control unit, which I was also able to get working. However, it still has the old-style mass airflow sensor, and I didn't want to install it like that.
The V70 had an MSA15.8, which didn't work without a CAN bus and wasn't particularly compatible with any software.
After that, I obtained a wiring harness for a T4 engine from a later AJT/ACV model, along with the corresponding EDC15 engine control units. I also took some sensors, as well as the accelerator pedal and LLM (likely referring to a specific module), from the T4.
It's important to note that the Volvo engines (and likely the AEL from Audi as well) have the injector control valve on a different cylinder than the ACV. However, the AJT engine has it on the same cylinder. Whatever the reason...
I suspect it's possible to teach an EDC15 which engine it's meant to control, but that's beyond my current capabilities, so I bought both.

The T4 wiring harness also has a 3-pin crankshaft sensor connected, where one wire is only a shield. I soldered the Volvo connector and omitted the shield. I don't know yet if that will cause any problems.
I also rewired the connectors for the ESP and used the two connectors from the Volvo.

I wasn't previously aware of the different nominal speeds of the pumps. Is there any information available about what internal differences exist between them? Even so, they should still run, right? If necessary, I also have a T4 pump available.

So far, my project isn't working because the control unit keeps triggering the ELAB, but I might create a separate thread about that later.

Best regards, Sönke.