Crap electronics in the car

Hello,

Well, AXR had a new surprise in store for me today.
Loaded with 5 crates of water and 2 crates of cola - securely fastened as always - I quickly headed home, and suddenly something made me brake, even though I had my foot on the gas. Since my "PoPometer" (presumably a humorous reference to a device measuring driving style) is probably not bad for a rally driver, I can't figure out why the ESP is activating and braking so aggressively – to the point where the driver behind me almost rear-ended me (without the brake lights coming on).
Okay, more attempts in a large parking lot.
First attempt: Too much speed with a small steering angle while simultaneously changing load into a curve, causing the rear to swing out. However, the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is slow to react – no response. So, I had to counter-steer before something worse happened. I now had the drift perfectly under control, and then the ESP decided that the vehicle was in an unstable state. Suddenly, the car sharply veered outwards, at a right angle to the curve's radius. On a real road, I would now be standing on the shoulder, facing oncoming traffic. Really Great (This effect appears loaded, yet empty).
Second attempt - quick steering with jerky movements - the car follows the steering well, no squealing, no loss of control - For no apparent reason, the ESP kicks in and reduces the speed by a good 10-20%, and the car even pushes off the front axle in a poorly controllable way. This effect is only noticeable at extremely high speeds when the car is empty.

So, anyone who relies on their ESP is misguided! The system is absolute junk!

Please only perform these tests on a closed-off track, and only if you are absolutely sure of what you are doing. I assume no responsibility for accidents or property damage. I advise everyone not to repeat these tests!

My ESP is also very slow to react when the deviation in direction isn't very sudden or severe. The other day, on a smooth, paved parking lot, I pulled the handbrake after I had already turned 90 degrees and was almost stopped, and the ESP kicked in...

I believe that the lateral acceleration is only properly recognized when the situation is already almost beyond saving for the ESP system.

Hi Andi,

andi wrote:

My ESP is also much too slow when the deviation in direction is not very quick or severe. The other day, on a smooth, paved parking lot, I pulled the handbrake after I had turned 90 degrees and was almost stopped, and the ESP kicked in...

That's exactly the same effect as in my first attempt, except you used the handbrake.

Quote:

I believe that lateral acceleration is only properly recognized when the situation is almost beyond saving for the ESP.

I think so too.

However, I've also noticed something: The ESP system starts to engage at a certain steering speed – the faster and more abruptly I steer, the sooner the ESP intervenes. Unfortunately, counter-steering maneuvers often require quick reactions, and the ESP then overrides the driver's intended action. Actually, the ESP should make counter-steering almost unnecessary!

As I entered the curve, the rear end started to slide, but the ESP didn't kick in – no reaction. So, I had to counter-steer before something worse happened. I had the drift perfectly under control, and then the ESP decided that the vehicle was in an unstable state. Suddenly, the car sharply veered outwards, perpendicular to the curve's radius. On a real road, I would have ended up broadside in the oncoming lane. Really great

That's exactly why, in the winter, my colleague's first instinct is to reach for the ESP-OFF switch.

He also stood twice at a 90-degree angle to the direction of travel on the opposite lane because the ESP thought it needed to correct something.
Both times, it was in tight curves with a speed limit of 20 km/h.

and that's exactly why I ordered my Octavia WITHOUT ESP, and I didn't just have no problems in the winter, but I had a lot of fun .

CU Gremlin.

Okay, so I always leave my ESP on during the winter, unless there's ice on the parking spot, etc. -> Turn on 'Fun' mode .

It has also saved me from unwanted touching a couple of times. However, sometimes his actions are questionable. We need a small rally expert in the ESP system who can decide what to do.

Hi,
"It seems to be just as perfect a system as the ubiquitous anti-lock braking system (ABS). It adds 50% more braking distance in winter as standard. With Audi, you could at least disable it initially. Besides preventing brake judder, it has only caused me unpleasant situations so far." Fortunately, there were no consequences.
It's good to know when you're planning a new investment...

Hello!

I would never have dared to criticize VW's ESP system, but I have some experience with other ESP systems, even though my van doesn't have one. I had the opportunity to try out various safety systems at an advanced driving course. There was a wide range of vehicles, from a brand new Bora to an Alfa 147. The VW was, by far, the worst vehicle. The ESP reacts at some point, and then often sluggishly or, as I said, much too late. It was very interesting to see that all the participants could try out the vehicles. From housewives to taxi drivers from the countryside, not just city drivers, the opinions were quite clear. Subjectively, the Alfa performed the best. The VW was one of the worst. When you drive the Alfa through the skid pad, you almost don't need to do anything. It feels like someone is pulling the anchor out the back, and the stability control system indicates a tendency towards oversteer (skid pad). You can already hear the system working. Just fractions of a second later, you're driving straight again. The Alfa's system almost intervenes too early. I believe that finding the best compromise is certainly not easy, but such a system should not create a dangerous situation; rather, it should eliminate or mitigate it.

Let's see what the people at Volkswagen come up with in the future.

Greetings, Peter.

Hi Peter,

Thank you for confirming my observation.
Having driven various ESP systems myself (unfortunately, all rear-wheel drive, so not directly comparable), I was already familiar with the purpose and benefits of such a system. However, in my opinion, the VW system is completely useless for the "average driver." Yes, sometimes even dangerous.

A system that intervenes too early can be annoying and ruin the driving experience (Peugeot).

By the way, when the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is activated, the cruise control is deactivated (which is actually a good thing), but it can be somewhat surprising if this happens while traveling at 100 km/h over a hill on a perfectly straight country road.

My first instinct is usually to turn ESP off! I've made similar observations, unfortunately!

Quote:

By the way, when the ESP is activated, the cruise control is deactivated (which is actually a good thing), but it can be a bit surprising if it happens while driving at 100 km/h over a hill on a perfectly straight country road.

Ha, you're even worse than me! It's called a vehicle, not a airplane...

Rainer K. wrote:

Ha, you're even worse than me! It's called a vehicle, not a airplane...

I can't really deny my hobby ...

"... these are then the prayer book entries of a rally driver: "... over the crest, maximum speed - fly..."

Today, I tried out the ASR (which is linked to the ESP) on a Golf, and I have to say that I don't need such gadgets (I'm a novice driver, having had my license for 3 months and driven 5,000 km, but I know my car – I haven't experienced oversteer yet, but I've been close). On the contrary, you can't even make it squeal (hello Polo without ESP). *g* No, ABS is fine, but I don't want ESP.

Best regards, WarLord.

I know my car, although not yet to the point of a complete breakdown, but I've experienced problems before.
You won't believe it... until you're lying in the grave.

because:
(I'm a novice driver (driver's license for 3 months and 5,000 km later)

Have fun with your first emergency braking experience on a wet road while turning.

CU Gremlin.

Hello,

A safety training course (e.g., from ADAC) costs much less (less than €100) than a damaged car, and almost everyone here has experienced that as a new driver. And you learn so much more in a training course than you do on the road. You can also compare cars with and without ABS and ESP there.

Sincerely,
Christian

WarLord wrote:

(3 months and 5,000 km after getting my driver's license), but I know my car. Greetings, WarLord

.

Hello,

Before this whole thing turns into a fundamental debate, I'd like to chime in.
With only 5,000 km of driving experience, I wouldn't consider that much experience yet; let's talk about it again after 50,000 to 100,000 km.

In my opinion, every new driver should take a safety training course. It doesn't cost much, and it opens your eyes to a completely different perspective on your car. It significantly broadens your driving experience. In my opinion, many people actually become more cautious after that experience, even if they don't necessarily drive slower.

I didn't immediately head straight for the rally track; instead, I took the detour via the autocross course. There, you can relatively safely explore the limits of the car's handling and practice your reactions.
Often, reacting is already too late; one must anticipate a certain action beforehand in order to take appropriate countermeasures. This, too, requires practice, ideally repeated many times. The car is only controlled through reflexes in emergency situations, and if those reflexes aren't ingrained, you'll likely react too slowly.

The rear end can be particularly unpredictable in the front-wheel-drive car – anyone who isn't prepared for that has already lost. (By the way, the G4, along with the electric Kadett, is one of the most extreme oversteer vehicles I've ever driven – which is probably why it comes with ESP as standard.)
Anyone who has ever driven an "Elchtest" knows what I'm talking about. Even for me, as a slalom and rally driver, my heart skipped a beat the first time. It looks incredibly simple from the outside, but it's not.

Back to the topic:
The ABS is fine, and I'm not complaining about it.
ASR/ESD can be a great help, especially on wet roads. The system itself is also good. It should definitely be switchable, otherwise you might get some unpleasant surprises in the winter (...why is the car slowing down even though I'm flooring it?).
I wouldn't rely on the G4 ESP.

Bertil wrote:

With only 5000 km of driving experience, I wouldn't yet consider it to be substantial experience

.
Okay. What matters are difficult or critical situations, not just clutching and shifting gears, and fortunately, you don't encounter that many of those in a 5000 km drive.

Bertil wrote:

(By the way, the G4, besides the E-Kadett, is one of the most extreme oversteer cars I've ever driven - which is probably why it has ESP as standard).

Okay, then go drive a D-Kadett. It was even worse. The first generation Golf was also problematic from a safety perspective, as it lacked a brake force distribution system. It typically exhibited strong understeer, but be careful when braking hard while turning on a grippy surface, as the rear end can become unstable.

Bertil wrote:

The ABS is okay, and I'm not complaining about that.

But me. With the Audi 100 C3, you could (thankfully) turn it off. I did braking tests on snow, and the result was that the braking distance with ABS was about 30% longer. On ice, it felt even worse. Colleagues from the east reported similar experiences with cobblestone pavements.
While ABS keeps the car in its lane, I'd rather come to a stop at a 30-degree angle to the direction of travel than hit the car in front of me directly.