TDI AFN: Mechanical ESP Possible?

Hi everyone, fellow diesel fans! So, I want to convert my old VW bus T3, year 1985, 1.6 TD JX engine, to a TDI AFN. The old engine is already consuming up to 3.5 liters of oil every 1000 km, so it's almost at the end of its life... which isn't surprising with 404,000 km on it.

Okay, my question is whether anyone has had experience getting an AFN or 1Z engine running with a mechanical ESP (Electronic Stabilization Program). If so, how does it affect performance and what are the fuel injection settings like?

I just don't want to have any electronic gadgets that only cause problems and ruin my vacation.

"Furthermore, I am looking for a 1Z or AFN engine, or a complete car that has been in an accident."

Hi,

You want to convert the ESP from the 1.6 engine to the AFN, or are you planning something else? Why not just use a 1.9 TDI engine (I think it's called the AAZ)?

Best regards,

January.

YES, because I'm very interested to know if anyone has had experience with this before I try it myself, to see if it's even possible. I only know that the injection pressure at the injector for the JX is 130 bar, and for the AFN it's about 190 bar! According to the Bosch datasheet, this JX-ESP can handle up to 210 bar , which is quite close to the limit. If it's very cold, the diesel becomes a bit thicker, so the pressure could potentially be even higher. I don't want an AAZ; it uses a little too much fuel and, compared to the JX, doesn't offer significantly more power! My friend actually drives a T3 with an AAZ engine!

and at the fuel pressure, approximately 190 bar! According to the Bosch datasheet, this JX-ESP can achieve up to 210 bar .

This is the nozzle opening pressure. The elemental pressure in the VP37-EDC is approximately 900 bar, and the pressure at the nozzle is then approximately 1200 bar.
In chamber diesel engines, the injector pressure is approximately 450 bar.

Subject: Someone has already converted a T3 and is also offering conversion kits for mechanical TDIs.
There were a few posts about this topic in this forum before, and Google definitely knows the answer.

Ah... lucky me, the favorites folder is still working.

http://www.syncro-bernd-jaeger.de/DEUTSCH/TDI-Umbau/tdi-umbau.html

CU Gremlin.

Hi!
If you're running an AFN/1Z engine with a mechanical turbocharger, it's essentially the same as an AAZ engine with an intercooler. If converting to a full TDI setup is too much effort, get an AAZ engine and install an intercooler. Then, do some minor adjustments to the fuel pump, and you can achieve approximately 120-130 horsepower. That should be enough to start with.
Best regards, Timo.

Yes, it is possible to have an AFN (Automatic Frequency Navigation) system with a mechanical ESP (Electronic Stability Program).
One can argue about the sense or nonsense of doing such a thing; I personally would not do it. It is said that the injection pump from the old 2.8-liter 4-cylinder engine used in the LT models up to the year 2001 can be used (I only know this from second-hand information, so without guarantee). This engine (manufactured for VW by MWN Brazil) was a fully mechanical TDI with a Bosch ESP injection pump. However, it is supposedly necessary to replace the delivery piston in the pump because the flow rate is too high for the 1.9-liter engine (unless you want to do extreme tuning).
The engine is very rare, and finding used pumps for it will likely be very difficult. I would advise against using it; instead, opt for a standard 1Z, ABU, AFN, or AAZ engine.
The purely mechanical 1.9 TDI engines are completely undocumented; everything you find is based on half-truths, incomplete knowledge, and private experimental engines. It's undeniable that there are functioning (fully mechanical 1.9 TDI) engines out there, but they have nothing to do with proper engine tuning. If you enjoy tinkering, feel free to try it yourself. However, if you prefer driving over working on your car, I would recommend opting for a mass-produced product.

Regards,
Jens.

Enjoy your meal! / Have a good lunch!

The JX pump also supports nozzle opening pressures up to 235 bar, as detailed on www.fmso.de.
The discussion about that is currently ongoing.
However, the pressure of 235 bar has only been set recently, so there is no long-term experience with it yet.

I would also go with the AAZ engine and really crank it up with a turbocharger and oil cooler (!!!), getting it to 110 horsepower.
They are also quite comfortable with it.
"However, the AAZ engine is difficult to find, and I don't know how availability looks for the AFN."

On the other hand...
Just try it out; I'm curious to see how an AFN engine performs with a JX pump.
running...

Hi, Jockel.

Die Seite http://www.syncro-bernd-jaeger.de/DEUTSCH/TDI-Umbau/tdi-umbau.html kenne ich! der preis ist echt erschreckend! zumindestenst für meinen schmalen Kohlenbeutel. Den AAZ ist irgendwie schwieriger zu bekomen,die landen fast alle in den Süden und Ostblock ! finde 110ps mit dem AAZ bissl zu brutal,vor allem kühlprobleme,und müste wohl den ladedrück und fördermenge stark erhöhren um mit LLK 110 PS rauszuholen. dan wäre der verbrauch wohl auch zu hoch. Ölküher (19 reihen) habe ich seit 6 Jahren drin. AFN geht schon,nur mein problem ist wenn ich in einer Anzeige was finde, und das blöde dabei ist,das ich selbst GEHÖRLOS bin und somit nicht Telefonieren kann,schreibe ich e-mails,oder muss meine Eltern bitten anzurufen,bis dahin sind die meisten weg! Auf die mails antworten nur wenige Echt interesannt das VW in Brasilien 2,8 L TDI mit Mech.ESP baut in hier in Europa nur noch mit Elektronik baut! Werd mal den Tipp von Jockel bei http://www.fmso.de/ reingucken! Ich überlege,ob mir es ein versuch wert ist den AFN mit der JX ESP zu versuchen..... vleicht gehts besser mit der ESP aus dem AAZ ?? Mir fält grad ein das der Land Rover einen 4 Zyl. TI see that DI is running with Mech.ESP, hmm, I need to check if it's the correct configuration...
Okay, Jens16Syncro, do you also drive a T3 with a TDI engine like the one in your picture on the left?

Quote:

It's quite interesting that Volkswagen is producing a 2.8L TDI with mechanical ESP in Brazil, while here in Europe they only offer it with electronic systems!

Hi there,
The engine was manufactured in Brazil, but the LT was sold throughout Europe until 2001 with this engine, including in Germany. From 2002 onwards, the 2.8l engine was converted to common rail (CR). The LT/Sprinter is not available for sale in Brazil. VW still sells a T2c with an air-cooled boxer engine there, which also fits well with the conditions in the country .

Quote:

I'm wondering if it's worth trying to use the AFN with a JX ESP. Maybe it would work better with an ESP from an AAZ?

I think you still haven't understood, this won't work. TDI injectors require an injection pressure of approximately 1000 bar for proper atomization, which a common rail system designed for a swirl diesel (JX, AAZ) cannot provide. This has been mentioned several times above. It would only be possible if you could find TDI injectors that would function with the lower injection pressure of a swirl diesel common rail system. VW doesn't offer anything like that, and I doubt such a thing even exists. The combustion chamber geometry of a VW TDI is specifically designed for fine atomization with high pressure. Furthermore, the principle is completely different from that of a swirl diesel, which means that components relevant to combustion are not interchangeable.
Fully mechanical direct injection diesel engines are not uncommon and have been around for a while. In truck engines, TDI (direct injection) has existed since the 1960s! In the passenger car sector, Fiat was once a pioneer in this area; here are some details about it:

FIAT CROMA (154) 1900 Turbo D internal combustion engine (154.LL, 154.PL)
Year of manufacture: 05/89 - 10/92.
kW 66
Psalm 90.
ccm 1929

Robert Bosch GmbH
Fuel injection pump.
0 460 414 059
Part numbers: VE4/11F2100R286-1 replaces: 0 460 414 056.

Nozzle core.
0 432 131 864
Opening pressure: 250 bar.

Here as well, only an opening pressure is specified, which has nothing to do with the injection pressure. The latter is likely to be significantly higher even in the Fiat Croma.

Quote:

I just remembered that the Land Rover has a 4-cylinder TDI engine with a mechanical ESP system. Hmm, I need to check if that's correct...

So, the TD5 engine from Land Rover is a common rail diesel engine, but I don't know if that's also the case for the TD4. If it is, just forget about it right away.

Quote:

Okay, Jens16Syncro, do you also drive a T3 with a TDI engine like the one in your picture links?

Yes, I drive a 16" Syncro with an AFN engine. I wouldn't do that again with the Syncro. Not because of the engine conversion, that's okay. Unfortunately, the gearbox in the T3 Syncro isn't durable enough for the AFN engine in the long run. If it lasts 100,000 km, you've been very lucky. Sadly, no one tells you this beforehand...

Regards,
Jens.

Quote:

I know that page!http://www.syncro-bernd-jaeger.de/DEUTSCH/TDI-Umbau/tdi-umbau.html The price is really shocking!

Don't forget that a completely new ESP is required, so it's not a replacement part. Just for fun, ask Bosch how much a brand-new ESP costs (without the old part)! After that, you'll lose all desire to buy fuel injection pumps .

Regards,
Jens.

Enjoy your meal! / Have a good lunch!

AAZ:
With an external oil cooler and a larger oil pump, achieving 110 horsepower is definitely possible without any major issues, to what extent...
I cannot assess whether the water cooling system is working properly in the T 3.
With a boost pressure of 1.1 bar, it should work; the fuel consumption only increases if you...
you are constantly accessing the additional performance.
The AFN certainly requires less [power/resources], but it has electronics instead.

With a 16-row oil cooler, auxiliary liquid cooler (LLK), extended gearbox, and an AAZ engine producing approximately 80-90 horsepower.
I can at least adjust the thermostat to 80°C and the cooling fan that turns on earlier.
The Volkswagen Golf with a speedometer reading of 170 is constantly accelerating without any change in the water temperature.
Large vehicle, with a consumption of approximately 8 liters per 100 kilometers (measured once so far).

Regarding the Fiat Croma:

VE4/11F2100R286-1

If I understand correctly, this is a distributor injection pump similar to the one used in...
AAZ / JR... with a bore diameter of only 11 mm for the feed piston.

Okay, just 2 left.

http://f23.parsimony.net/forum49387/messages/150257.htm

http://f23.parsimony.net/forum49387/messages/152397.htm

Hi, Jockel.