Ruckeln bei 1Z lokalisiert. Was nun? | Posts 16+

[Translating...]

Hallo,

verglichen mit den Daten aus der Fehlerdatenbank sieht das doch ganz gut aus...

Anzeigegruppe 1

Feld 1 Motordrehzahl
Anzeige Soll: 861..945 U/min

Feld 2 Einspritzmenge
Anzeige Soll: 2,2..9 mg/H

Feld 3 Spannung von Sensor Regelschieberweg
Anzeige Soll: 1,25..1,7 V

Feld 4 Kühlmitteltemperatur
Anzeige Soll: 80..110°C

Hi Michael

. . . you're right, I could have also checked that.
If data is available for the currently processed engine, one should naturally not rely on "similar" engines.

[Translating...]Hallo !

Neue Einspritzpumpe ist drin - Ruckeln ist weg. Lag wohl eindeutig am Mengenstellwerk.
Hätte man bestimmt beim Boschdienst einstellen lassen können, aber habe die Pumpe für 370 EUR bekommen - war also billiger als das einstellen.
Hier noch die neuen Meßwerte Meßwertblock 1

Leerlaufdrehzahl

alt - 903 U/min neu - 903 U/min

Einspritzmenge

alt - 2,6 mg/H neu - 6,2 mg/H

Spannung Geber Regelschieberweg

alt - 1,36 V neu - 1,60 V

Kühlmittel

alt - 88,2°C neu - 85,5°C

Gruß
Detlef

[Translating...]

Detasz wrote:

Einspritzmenge alt - 2,6 mg/H neu - 6,2 mg/H Spannung Geber Regelschieberweg alt - 1,36 V neu - 1,60 V

Hi

das scheint meine erste Vermutung doch zu bestätigen - daß die alte Pumpe zumindest im Leerlauf "viel zu fett" gestanden hat.

Je nachdem wie sich die Einstellungen der Pumpen unterscheiden, könntest Du jetzt weniger Leistung haben . . . schon was derartiges gemerkt?

[Translating...]Untenrum - also bis der Turbolader einsetzt - ist er ein wenig schlapp geworden. Gibt es da eine Möglichkeit dass zu beheben?

Detlef

Detasz wrote:

Upside down - meaning, until the turbocharger engages - he has become a bit sluggish. Is there a way to fix this?

Hi

basically, yes (by simply readjusting the new pump), but then you would most likely have a jerky problem again.
Keep your strength before the charger arrives without hesitation. According to my knowledge, the only way to achieve this is through .

For example, if nothing essential is missing in the 2000-4000 test, be happy that it's not jerking – and that your car is most likely to pass the inspection.

[Translating...]

ulf wrote:

Detasz wrote: Einspritzmenge alt - 2,6 mg/H neu - 6,2 mg/H Spannung Geber Regelschieberweg alt - 1,36 V neu - 1,60 V Hi das scheint meine erste Vermutung doch zu bestätigen - daß die alte Pumpe zumindest im Leerlauf "viel zu fett" gestanden hat. Je nachdem wie sich die Einstellungen der Pumpen unterscheiden, könntest Du jetzt weniger Leistung haben . . . schon was derartiges gemerkt?

Hi Ulf,

wieso mit der alten Pumpe zu "Fett"? Die neue Pumpe gibt dem STG doch einen höheren Einspritzwert vor, also sollte die neue Pumpe "Fetter" stehen.
Oder mach ich jetzt einen Denkfehler.
Die alte Pumpe lag mit den 2,3mg/H auch schon verdächtig dicht an der unteren Toleranzgrenze.

Hi Bertil

The 2.6 and 6.2 mg figures are only the amount that the engine computer believes it should inject.
As a real number, IMO can at best be one of the numbers.
Because, what do you think the idle speed would actually be with the new pump if the same engine suddenly had to process 250% more than its previous capacity?

Let's assume a realistic amount of 5 mg/liter, which allows the warm engine to maintain 900 rpm.
If the old pump appears to only inject 2.6 mg (= RWG value), it is therefore too high relative to its own RWG reference signal.
If the new pump already shows 6.2 mg, then it is accordingly
lean or, more accurately, already very lean.

So sehe ich jedenfalls die Sache. . . Bei Sensorsignalen in regulierten Systemen muss man manchmal "out of the box" denken.

Hi Bertil

"And that's just the tip of the iceberg, I think."

In an idling state, the speed is the primary target variable for the control system.
Can you, for example, easily recognize when the engine computer is "angry" and gives full throttle when you accidentally brake the moving cart down to below 900 rpm without disengaging it?
Or, how to gently accelerate without pressing the gas pedal, even on inclines.

However, in normal operation, the control is no longer primarily based on engine speed, but (according to all parameters) on the target size "injection quantity".
Therefore, devices like Powerboxes, which only distort the RWG signal, also work. Would the engine computer be similar to the RWG signal, where it's essentially irrelevant during idle, then it would be impossible to achieve any significant additional performance through a box.

Now, there must be some point above the idle speed, where the transition between the "1st Priority Speed" and the "1st Priority Injection Quantity" takes place.
If, however, the engine already develops too much power or reaches excessively high RPMs even with a seemingly small injection quantity (i.e., the pump is running too rich or there is a 10c tuning, etc.), there might be a kind of conflict between the two control strategies (where priority is given to RPM provides more torque than priority is given to quantity).
or, the EDC switches between the two strategies, and the constantly running break causes noticeable jerking.

What do you think of this explanation?

ulf wrote:

Hi Bertil ... Now, there must be some point above the idle speed, where the transition between the "1st Priority Speed" and the "1st Priority Injection Quantity" takes place. If, however, the engine already develops too much power or reaches excessively high RPMs even with a seemingly small injection quantity (i.e., the pump is running too rich or there is a 10c tuning, etc.), there might be a kind of conflict between the two control strategies (where priority is given to RPM provides more torque than priority is given to quantity). or, the EDC switches between the two strategies, and the constantly running break causes noticeable jerking. What do you think of this explanation?

Hi Ulf,

This corresponds to what I always claim: Regular oscillation. The transition between the areas is certainly critical, and the fact that this jerky effect occurs within a specific speed range makes logical sense. I hadn't thought of that either.
If "audifan" could tell us more about the TDI software, we could confirm it or not...

I need to think about the injection amount again, but your explanation is okay.

Hi Bertil

Rainer has just been able to eliminate the "rattle" of his AHF by adjusting the position of the control panel.
The idle injection amounts (posted in the DIY Rough Idle Troubleshooting thread in the error database) confirm my theory:

Original 2 mg: Jerking and full power
3 mg less jerkiness
At 6 mg, there is no more stuttering, but there is a loss of performance.

--> i.e., the pump appears to operate more efficiently at the "6 mg" idle flow rate compared to lower mg values.

Hi Ulf,

... but my train still derails no matter where the signal box is located. The tendency to "wander" (i.e., the feeling of instability) is more pronounced with a "higher" setting.
Measurements with VAG Com I can do Currently not performing (Laptop hard drive destroyed on vacation !!!)
But now I realize that the vibrations at 2000 RPM are less noticeable when the Auto Hal Box is switched on.

Bertil wrote:

But it doesn't matter where the signal box is located. The tendency to "wander" (i.e., the feeling of instability) is more pronounced with a "higher" setting. Measurements with VAG Com I can do Currently not performing (Laptop hard drive destroyed on vacation !!!) But now I realize that with the Auto Hal Box turned on, the jerking at 2000 RPM is less noticeable.

Hi Bertil,

It seems that your tremors might be caused by something other than the symptoms I have been able to provoke (or suppress).
"Especially that the use of active boxes is decreasing, goes against my experience."

Do you have an inductive RWG?
If so, my little trick box is probably at its

Hi Ulf,

I had the opportunity to test a different pump yesterday (I received a new one), and I can use it for a couple of days (it will be removed on Saturday ).
THE RUST IS GONE!
I hope to get my laptop running for measurements by Saturday.
I don't want to overemphasize this, as it's very subjective, but I'd like to note that the engine isn't jerking when the box is on. Just assume that it's also jerking (but not so noticeable at startup)...

It is the VE4/10 E 2250 R 510-1 (0460404985) pump. I cannot tell you which RWG it belongs to.

Bertil wrote:

It is the VE4/10 E 2250 R 510-1 (0460404985) pump. I cannot tell you which RWG it belongs to.

Hi Bertil

Please place a multimeter between pump cable 1 and 2.
Measurement value of 6 Ohms --> inductive sensor.
Significantly higher measurement value --> more susceptible to wear.

Is the power output of both pumps largely the same?

ulf wrote:

Hi Bertil Please place a multimeter between pump cable 1 and 2. Measurement value of 6 Ohms --> inductive sensor. Significantly higher measurement value --> more susceptible to wear. Is the power output of both pumps largely the same?

I can tell you that exactly: ~5Ohm