Grund für Verbrauchsausreißer - PSA HDi | Posts 16+

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Disconnecting and sealing the breather hose will definitely trigger the check engine light (MIL). This is probably one of the differences between Euro 3 and 4 standards.

No, not even with EU4 engines. We worked on a 2006 8-valve engine (which is the EU4 1.4), and it only shows an error code in the diagnostic system.
Here's a neat solution: At the back of the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid valve, you remove the plastic tube from the rubber hose section that connects to the solenoid valve. This plastic tube is then sealed with a leak plug (VW part number available upon request). To prevent dirt from entering the solenoid valve and to avoid any vacuum loss, you'll now create a short piece of 8mm fuel hose, approximately 4 cm long.
You connect the rubber hose piece to this, and then attach the leak-proof stopper onto the tube. This creates a mechanical connection, but there is no pneumatic (air) seal.

You can easily find the solenoid valve slightly off-center to the left (in the direction of travel) below or in front of the water tank, or on the splash guard.


In contrast, the same procedure on a Eu3 2.0 HDI resulted in an error code and several warning lights. However, I have only observed this behavior with EDC15 HDIs so far.

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You don't do that! While it's possible to overtake in flat areas if you can build up some speed beforehand, otherwise, it's best to avoid it. This also applies to other cars, because even if the driver just presses the gas pedal a little, I might have to abort my overtaking maneuver. It's not uncommon for someone who was previously driving 70-80 km/h to absolutely refuse to let anyone overtake them.

"Well, that seems to be more of a psychological issue for many people. It's much easier to overtake those kinds of drivers with the (performance-oriented) Passat BKC (77 kW, without DPF). Perhaps they assume that a Passat has a more powerful engine than a 206."

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I'm not talking about those! The test vehicles had eight-valve engines that were supposed to be mechanically similar to my 1.4 HDI. However, they were direct competitors to the 2.0 HDI and therefore disappeared from consideration for business reasons.

Okay - I find that interesting. Because now that the 2.0 HDi with 66/90 is no longer available, the 1.6-liter engine is installed there .

vwSchrauber wrote:

No, not even with EU4 engines. We did it on a 2006 8HZ (which is the EU4 1.4), and only the error code appears in the diagnostic memory.

It shouldn't be happening. The Euro 4 standard stipulates that the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) must illuminate immediately in case of any fault affecting emissions.

That's why it surprised me.

So far, it worked on a 2005 Peugeot 206 (not the one I'm currently disassembling), and a 2006 Citroen C3 8HZ without triggering the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp).

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immediately turn on the MI{L}{L}amp

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MIL stands for malfunction indicator lamp.

vwSchrauber wrote:

Quote: immediately turn off the MIL-L amp . MIL stands for malfunction indicator l:wink:amp

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How does it sound if I had written: "the MIL must be addressed"? Not very nice, right? }

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No, not even with the EU4. We did it on a 2006 8HZ engine (which is the EU4 1.4), and only the error code appears in the diagnostic memory. Here's a neat solution: At the back of the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid valve, you remove the plastic tube from the rubber hose section that connects to the solenoid valve. This plastic tube is then sealed with a leak plug (VW part number available upon request). To prevent dirt from entering the solenoid valve and to avoid any vacuum loss, you now create a short piece of 8mm fuel hose, approximately 4 cm long. You connect the rubber hose piece to this, and then attach the leak-proof stopper onto the tube. This will physically hold everything together, but there won't be any pneumatic connection. You can easily find the solenoid valve slightly off-center to the left (in the direction of travel) below/in front of the water tank, or on the splash guard.

I also have the 8HZ. I need to look for the solenoid valve. But I think I know which one you mean. It seems that you can somehow change its operating frequency, even in the Assist. A friend who works on Peugeot cars has done something similar, and currently there are no error messages stored. Especially, the interesting range between idle and partial load can be reduced so much that the engine doesn't run at idle with almost fully open EGR, causing it to damage itself. I drive a lot in city traffic (still), and I think this is polluting the intake manifold quite a bit. This adaptation worked well for a long time through trial and error, but it still triggers an error message under extreme temperatures (very cold or very hot). This happens when you accelerate from standstill with more than half throttle. You can reproduce this at every red light. Strangely enough, it has been observed less frequently since the installation of the low-temperature cooler.

Side effect of the reduced EGR rate (still without Low Temperature Coolant): More immediate throttle response; the perceived "air intake" moment during acceleration/overtaking without gear changes is less noticeable. Disadvantages: The coolant temperature may not reach "operating temperature" in city driving conditions, especially in winter, and can be 10 to 15 degrees Celsius lower than the usual 78 to 84 degrees. Therefore, the temperature fluctuates more. The heating performance also feels reduced. However, I haven't yet experienced winter operation with Low Temperature Coolant. All of this was before.


:wink:Well, that seems to be more of a psychological issue for many people. It's much easier to overtake those kinds of drivers with the (performance-oriented) Passat BKC (77kW, without DPF), which isn't necessarily less powerful. Perhaps they assume that a Passat has a stronger engine than a 206.

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You don't need to be afraid of a 206. Most are basic models with 60 or 75 horsepower gasoline engines. The former is quite economical, but doesn't offer much performance. The 75 hp version is reasonably okay, but it won't set your world on fire either. Moreover, considering its power output, it's quite thirsty. The 1.4 16V models are not as common on the roads due to their significantly higher price, despite having a very smooth-running engine with 88 hp. And for the 109 hp gasoline engine (1.6 16V), maintenance costs are at GTI levels, which simply makes it too expensive for everyday use. The GTI class of the 206 starts with 136 hp and ends with the RC or GT (as it was called elsewhere). However, owning one involves a lot of idealism, because these cars are expensive in every way. Someone who has been outpaced by such a car while driving a 170 hp Passat is naturally traumatized.

However, many 206 drivers already consider their 75 horsepower engine to be sufficiently powerful and want to keep up with traffic. Perhaps it's also because when other drivers see a 206 starting to pull out to overtake, they often say, "You can't!" and simply speed up, regardless of whether they were previously driving at 70 km/h.

The fact is that the 68 horsepower HDI engine is sufficient to get by, but it lacks the power to really "compete." However, with anticipatory driving, you can still move along quite quickly in this car, and its favorable aerodynamics allow for a relatively high possible speed on the highway – considering the limited power output of the engine. In that case, however, you have to be indifferent to the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) readings and also to the fuel consumption. Perhaps, with my slightly lowered 206, which has wider 195 tires and a verschandeln rear end, other drivers might assume that the car has more engine power than it actually does. In any case, for me, overtaking is no longer an option if the vehicle being overtaken even briefly accelerates. Practically speaking, almost everyone has more torque and will force me to pull back into line behind them. It's not worth the effort for me to push my engine to its limit just to lose anyway. You have to accept it, grit your teeth, move back into line, and crawl along 100 meters behind.

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After 130,000 km, the engine shows very few signs of wear on the connecting rod bearings, piston rings, connecting rod bearing housings/piston bolts, and this despite the fact that with a boost pressure of 1 bar (relative), there is no intercooler, and at low loads, the EGR system heats up the intake air (up to approximately 120 km/h -> NEDC).

That gives me hope! I currently have company-provided accommodation near my workplace for the next 3 months, so for now I'll mostly be driving just for leisure, like on weekends. But after that, I'll either have to commute around 170 km (approximately 106 miles) each day, or hopefully, I can eventually reduce that by moving to Berlin. So the Peugeot is going to rack up a lot of mileage...

Have you ever had 1.4 HDIs with mileages exceeding 150,000 - 200,000 km? Do they still run well at that mileage, and if so, how well?


I've monitored the intake air temperatures again while driving on the highway. When I maintain speeds between 95 and 110 km/h, I get readings between 70 and 100 degrees Celsius – despite having a low-temperature cooling system (LTCS). It seems that the airflow is suboptimal. Additionally, I've noticed that the engine hesitates slightly when coasting and then accelerating (for example, waiting for an opportunity to overtake a truck). I suspect that the buildup of pressure in the entire volume of piping between the turbocharger, the LTCS, and the intake manifold is responsible for this. There's also a noticeable overboost when I suddenly accelerate, which even the ScanGauge shows at around 1.4 bar. However, the software for the 1.4 HDI engine seems to tolerate this quite well without any issues.

I once compared the air intake of my Ford Fusion with another one that had the same engine and Euro 4 emissions standard. My colleague's 2006 model draws in air from a location between the left headlight and the upper grille insert on the hood. It might be slightly cooler there, but the air intake is also dirtier.

My colleague also mentioned the perceived lack of power from the engine starting around 120 km/h, and the excessive fuel consumption if you try to drive faster. The aerodynamics of the Fusion are like a brick wall, which means that at speeds of 140-160 km/h – which is about as fast as it can reasonably go – it should consume between 8 and 9 liters per 100 km. It also has a Bosch engine control unit and the same power output of 50 kW (68 hp).

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Is the climate cooler installed separately at your place, or is it attached to the water cooling system?

The climate control unit is attached to the water cooling system, and both are then mounted together on the lower crossbeam and secured with screws at the top. However, it's not possible to photograph it without significant disassembly.

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No, not even with the EU4. We did it on a 2006 8HZ engine (which is the EU4 1.4), and only the error code appears in the diagnostic memory. Here's a neat solution: At the back of the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid valve, you remove the plastic tube from the rubber hose section that connects to the solenoid valve. This plastic tube is then sealed with a leak plug (VW part number available upon request). To prevent dirt from entering the solenoid valve and to avoid any vacuum loss, you now create a short piece of 8mm fuel hose, approximately 4 cm long. You connect the rubber hose piece to this, and then attach the leak-proof stopper onto the tube. This will physically hold everything together, but there won't be any pneumatic connection. You can easily find the solenoid valve slightly off-center to the left (in the direction of travel) below/in front of the water tank, or on the splash panel.

Unfortunately, it didn't work. With this modification, you can drive on country roads and in city traffic without any issues. However, even when driving on the highway in the relevant speed range, a fault code is still triggered with a yellow MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp). The error message reads: "Mass airflow sensor reading implausible, intermittent." Furthermore, the error can be provoked by accelerating with more than half throttle. When driving on the highway, it occurs at speeds of 115-125 km/h with just a light touch on the accelerator. If you suddenly accelerate hard at 90 km/h, you can also trigger the MIL. However, this does not affect drivability as long as the error remains intermittent. According to my friend who is a Peugeot mechanic, if the error occurs permanently, it should trigger limp mode, which limits the maximum speed to approximately 85-90 km/h and disables turbo boost.

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Have you ever had 1.4 HDIs with mileages exceeding 150,000 - 200,000 km? Do they still run well at that mileage, and if so, how well?

No, only one so far. Compared to various other TDIs with the same mileage, it looked very good (despite the lack of long-life coolant).

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I checked the intake air temperatures again while driving on the highway. If I stay at 95-110 km/h, I get readings between 70 and 100 degrees Celsius - even with the low-temperature cooling system. It seems that the airflow is suboptimal.

That may be true. At these temperatures, the values with low-GWP refrigerants should be between a maximum of 30-50°C.

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Furthermore, I have noticed that the engine feels sluggish when rolling and then accelerating (for example, while waiting for an opportunity to overtake a truck).

It could also be due to other reasons.
For example, the fuel filter on the 206 has a very poorly designed mesh screen. The screen itself is large enough, but the snorkel inside extends all the way to the bottom of the screen and isn't angled. This results in an effective screen area of only about 1 cm², and in most cars, there's already quite a bit of dirt trapped in it.

It could be due to the fact that the solenoid valve on the high-pressure pump (which is actually controlled on the suction side) is activated to build up pressure, and currently there isn't enough diesel available because, on one hand, the fuel tank strainer (or a clogged fuel filter) is creating resistance, and on the other hand, the fuel column in the supply line needs to be accelerated.

It is recommended to use an original diagnostic tool or a suitable alternative (VCDS with OBDII is not appropriate in this case) to examine the fuel rail pressure deviation between the target value and the actual value, as well as the duty cycle of the fuel pressure regulator solenoid valve.

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Unfortunately, it didn't work. With the aforementioned intervention, it is possible to drive on country roads and in city traffic without errors, but even then, a fault code with a yellow MIL light appears in the interesting speed range on the highway. The error message reads: "Mass airflow sensor reading implausible, intermittent." Furthermore, the error can be triggered by accelerating with more than half throttle. During highway driving, it occurs with very gentle acceleration at speeds of 115-125 km/h. If you suddenly accelerate heavily at a speed of 90 km/h, you can also trigger the MIL light. However, this does not affect the driving experience as long as the error remains intermittent.

Then the 8HZ module in the Peugeot has a different software version than the one in the Citroen. Do you happen to know your engine control unit number (Bosch number - the one that starts with 0 281...)?

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and the shutdown of the turbo support system is planned.

This can only be achieved through quantity reduction. The 8HX/8HZ models have a pneumatically controlled wastegate, meaning they have a mechanical boost pressure limiter. Only the 8HY (1.4 HDI 90, 16V) has a regulated turbocharger.

Now that the engine is properly broken in and the fuel consumption figures are reliable enough for accurate comparisons, I've noticed that it now consumes approximately 1 liter less per 100 kilometers.

What is the actual fuel consumption and what driving conditions are being used? How does the engine otherwise feel?

I had organized my escape from snow and ice over the turn of the year and was in Limburg, in the region around Venlo, from December 30th to January 1st. Due to weather conditions, the travel speed was extremely low, and at times I was only traveling at 65 km/h. However, the sections without restrictions starting from Herford were driven at 115-125 km/h with a very light throttle. Always keeping an eye on the intake air temperature. The result was an average fuel consumption of just under 4 liters for the journey there. And thanks to the long distance, I didn't freeze inside either.

Given the high diesel prices on New Year's Day, I haven't refueled yet. You don't necessarily need to when the tank is still about half full. However, the return trip was similar, so I would estimate needing approximately 4 liters again.

Thanks to the long drives, at least the ESD has cleared up again. In any case, when it arrived back home, the thing sounded like a two-liter gasoline engine. }

Unfortunately, I had to revert the AGR manipulation that I had implemented via the control line. As I mentioned earlier, it causes an error message under certain operating conditions. This error can be triggered intentionally, so I'm unable to proceed with this approach.

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What are his actual experiences and what is the intended use case? How does the engine otherwise feel?

Average consumption is now approximately 5-5.5 liters, compared to around 6-6.5 liters previously.

In winter, with the heating turned up high and a low speed (due to weather conditions), the temperature gauge often drops below 70°C, which then increases fuel consumption.
I think it would be a good idea to install an 80°C thermostat along with a proper oil cooler. The original 75°C setting (on all models without an oil cooler) probably served to make the lack of an oil cooler more bearable for the engine.

Since the piston ring replacement, the engine starts more easily when cold and seems to have slightly more power.
Unless it's absolutely necessary due to weather conditions, we expect it to perform well. It's our workshop vehicle, and we use it to quickly retrieve spare parts or provide roadside assistance when someone breaks down nearby.

However, the maximum speed is still just about reached. But it's more than the stated 164 km/h.
are not included.

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Unfortunately, I had to revert the EGR manipulation that I had done via the control line. As I mentioned above, it leads to an error entry under certain operating conditions. This entry can be triggered, so I'm unable to proceed with this approach.

I usually solve this problem using software. You could ask Rainer; he should be able to help with it too (or offer a solution).

Yes, I'll have to do that sometime, but only if I can be without the vehicle for at least a week. That's not possible right now.

By the way, I'm having fun with the retrofitted water heater that I described here. This is the most effective tuning measure so far!

I can confirm the behavior described: when driving slowly due to weather conditions and with a correspondingly low load demand, the temperature gauge drops below 70 degrees Celsius. That's why the lower air intake in the bumper is currently blocked. The temperature now stabilizes at 80-82 degrees Celsius, briefly reaching 85 degrees just before the thermostat opens completely.

By the way, that "temperature gauge," as you call it, isn't even inaccurate! The displayed 70 degrees on the gauge corresponds to 72 degrees measured via OBD. If the needle is centered between 70 and 90 degrees, then it indicates 79-80 degrees, which is generally considered the "operating temperature." A needle reading below 90 degrees corresponds to the mentioned 85 degrees measured via OBD, at which point the thermostat fully opens. After that, the gauge reading drops back to halfway between 70 and 90 degrees, where it remains – or continues to drop further if you use the interior heater and fan at full power, drawing all the heat out of the system.

Whenever I see those rigidly fixed water temperature gauges at 90 degrees in VW TDIs, it makes me feel quite uneasy. By the time the gauge moves out of that ideal position, the engine is either much too hot or much too cold. In that case, they could have simply omitted the thermometer and replaced it with a three-color LED display (blue, green, red – as seen in Hyundai). This temperature indicator warns drivers to drive cautiously when the light is blue, and moreover, the instantaneous fuel consumption reading on this model has been rounded up by about 2 liters. And it turns red before it becomes dangerous for the engine. But how many normal users actually pay attention to the position of a water temperature gauge?

If I leave the lower air intake open, like on your 206, it won't reach 80 degrees Celsius even with the electric heater. The amount of heat that the heating system uses prevents it from getting warmer than 70-72 degrees. However, the electric heater does provide enough warmth to prevent me from feeling cold.

Potentially, closing the lower air intake could generate more heat – provided that you monitor the water temperature. However, in a company car with potentially frequently changing drivers, this might be quite risky.