VAG-Händler hat mir Unfallschaden verschwiegen | Posts 16+

Okay, it seems things are starting to move forward again.
After another phone call to the seller, he informed me that his boss had taken action on the matter due to my email.
He contacted me this afternoon and offered to either take the car back or pay for the depreciation in value. He hasn't mentioned a specific amount yet, as I asked him to first check on his premises to see if he even has a comparable PD-TDI model available, without me having to pay extra. He wants to do that and will get back to me again tomorrow.
He said the damage to the fender would cost approximately €1200 to repair. Well, it's not really that bad when you consider that the fenders were replaced, painted, and the bumper was also painted.

Let's see what he has to say tomorrow.

Oh no, don't complain. I know I should know this. 1200 euros for a fender and bumper... I wonder where this is all going to lead. "I know of complete cars that still look good and cost less. But I also have to say that 1200 euros of damage is definitely not a small amount, is it?"

It depends. Primarily, it depends on whether an expert assessment was carried out and whether it describes any depreciation in value.
Considering the current prices for spare parts and hourly wages, I think 1200 Tux is quite a low amount.

@Matthias

'The sales manager also mentioned this and apologized that these two facts (the car was a driving school vehicle and had not been accident-free) were not noticed during the inspection. Therefore, due to the incorrect information in the purchase contract, he is offering a rescission of the contract. However, he didn't actually have to offer that; I have the right to do so. Let's see what financial offer he makes tomorrow if he can't find a suitable replacement car. I think an offer of €500 - €1000 would be acceptable. Alternatively, he could offer €500 plus a voucher for a complete major inspection, including parts.' But let's wait and see.

@joergs
1200 thalers can be gathered quickly.


More tomorrow.

Fenders replaced, turn signals replaced, software updated, front bumpers replaced, rear bumpers repainted.
including assembly and painting costs!
I paid 2600 euros for a G4 from a friend.
It was repaired at a VW dealership.

Some people would buy a graphics card with that amount of money.

@Hati: Someone has already put it perfectly: Any defects that diminish the value of the item must be disclosed by the seller without being asked.

Severe front-end damage, including frame damage. Attachments were replaced, and the frame was straightened. Can be provided without further inquiry.

Example 2: Parking damage to an elderly lady's car: Right and left fenders dented, front and rear bumpers completely scratched. The dealer REPLACES all parts. This information should NOT be disclosed unless specifically asked (While the damage itself reduces the price, after replacing the defective parts, the defects are completely eliminated. The value of the car is now the same as a car that has never been damaged). However, if a potential buyer asks: 'Did the car have any damage?', the dealer MUST disclose all damages. Often, this question elicits a general response: 'A few small scratches, we had to replace the fender in the front.' Ask specifically: Where was the scratch, and how deep was it? Include everything in the purchase agreement.

Regarding its use as a driving school car, rental car, or test car: I have no idea whether that needs to be specified.

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Micha'

"If the damage amount exceeds 1000 euros, the dealer must disclose this information when selling the vehicle (such damage is considered a mandatory disclosure). This applies even if the customer does not directly ask about it. It is not necessarily required that load-bearing parts have been damaged or replaced. Even if the car is later resold by a private individual, this repair should be explicitly mentioned in the purchase agreement. However, if the dealer takes the vehicle back, the customer is entitled to deduct the kilometers driven as usage from the purchase price to be refunded." As far as I know, it's approximately 0.65 liters per 1000 kilometers driven (this information is provided without guarantee).

@Bee
My 'skilled' salesperson, however, made a much dumber mistake.
He checked the box on the purchase agreement indicating that the car had no accident history. ATTENTION!! Accident-free and Accident car are two completely different things.
Furthermore, he indicated that the vehicle was NOT used for commercial purposes. The use of the vehicle as a driving school car is clearly a commercial activity.

He deliberately concealed these facts, which is why his supervisor also offered him the option of a different position. The distance driven must be taken into account. However, after a week or 1000 km, the car dealership will likely not want to argue with me if they are at fault. Besides that, I will keep the car if a suitable offer for a price reduction is made.

Hati wrote:

My "skilled" salesperson, however, made a much dumber mistake. Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate. Furthermore, he indicated that the vehicle was NOT used for commercial purposes. The use of the vehicle as a driving school car is clearly a commercial activity.

... That's definitely a knockout criterion...
The accident damage (if it's just a minor fender bender) doesn't necessarily have to be reported.

Quote:

... Apart from that, I will keep the car if there is a suitable offer for a price reduction.

I would do that too... I have done that before.

Hi,

@Hati: A driving school car is undoubtedly used for commercial purposes. The seller failed to disclose this information. That's also the reason why he's being cooperative with you.

A price reduction solely due to a replaced fender will not be upheld. As I said, the replaced fender does not diminish the value of the car in any way. The seller is only obligated to disclose damages that reduce the value of the vehicle. (For example, a damage that reduces the value...) In the case of frame damage, the insurance company will cover the costs, provided it is not a total loss. In addition to the repair costs, they will also provide compensation for the loss of value.

I would estimate that the dealer will reduce the price by 500 euros. Perhaps a little more, considering the 'greetings from your boss.'

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Micha'

A price reduction solely due to a replaced fender will not necessarily be granted.
...


That may very well be the case. However, the issue is more about a price reduction due to deliberately concealed facts in the purchase agreement. A vehicle that has had its bumper repainted and its fender replaced after even a minor collision is definitely NOT accident-free anymore. However, it is not necessarily a 'totaled' car. The legal system clearly distinguishes between the two. If the purchase agreement had stated 'NOT AN ACCIDENT VEHICLE,' that would be correct. 'Accident-free' is actually a lie.

Today, however, I have not received any further feedback, despite the sales manager's promise. He was in a meeting all afternoon.
Well, they're not going to run away from me (and neither will my lawyer ).

Oh man, they're really serious about you. Meetings, meetings everywhere.
What does a car salesperson do at such a meeting? Are they being lectured by a representative from the parent company? They can't be kept busy with internal training. Was there one at VW recently? If you ask them something about the technology, you'll be appalled. Just today, when I was looking into the engine compartment of a new Passat out of curiosity to see what kind of alternator it had (heated windshield and Climatronic), I was told that 1400A (he said that very seriously... 1400...) would be enough to power half of Siegen (roughly 70,000 inhabitants).

Okay, then we can all be reassured. We can plug cables from the house into the car in the evening and feed even more electricity into the grid... that will reduce operating costs.

From the land where car salespeople still know what's important...

Okay.
This morning, I received the promised call from the dealer. They now want to reduce the price by another €250 for the replacement fender. I initially told them that this seems like too little and that they should offer at least a voucher for an inspection in addition. For that, he now needs to obtain 'green light' approval.

Even if they don't want to do that either, I would then have a G4 TDI PD Special from 03/2002, with 90,000 km, new tires and new winter tires, for a total of €10,400 + one year of VAG warranty with no deductible.
I could live with that. Ultimately, the car runs well, and as a former driving school car, it probably hasn't been subjected to constant high-speed driving, although the clutch may have suffered more wear than it would have with an 'experienced' driver.

Take the 250 tuxedos and avoid this vendor in the future.

I don't think you can expect much more than that.

Okay.
The money is available (€250), and there's a voucher for a free inspection. During the inspection, I'll stay nearby to see what the Klingons are up to.

Well, at least something...

but please choose a DTG without any fog, otherwise transparency won't be possible...