TDI Idle Vibration: 74kW AXR Engine Fix

Hello,

Updates on the clattering PD TDI engine (specifically the AXR variant).

After persistent inquiries (including to the management), the hammer arrived. There are problems with the STG at the AXR. Here is now the original text of the change:

(Please don't laugh!!! This is the original text with all its mistakes.)


Technical troubleshooting.

Problem description:
Rough idle or hesitation after a prolonged period of acceleration.

Cause:
Tolerances in software tuning. ... whatever that may be...

- The engine is running roughly at idle and transmitting very unpleasant vibrations into the passenger compartment.
By turning on the rear window defroster, the idle speed improves noticeably. ... so, turn on the rear window defroster while you're at a traffic light...
- After a period of acceleration and then slight acceleration, a noticeable jerk can be felt.

This applies only to vehicles equipped with the engine control unit (ECU) with part number 038 906 019 CR.

Serial solution.
Starting in 2001, a modified steering device was used - part number 038 906 019 AT ... that's exactly how it's written... .
This control unit is not backward compatible. ... so probably significant hardware (HW) changes...
... since the AXR was manufactured starting in 9/2001, they used the old one for four weeks...

KD solution.

Make sure that no errors are stored in the fault memory and that there are no leaks in the charge air system. ... it is probably particularly important to check for leaks! ...

If an error has been registered, please proceed according to the guided troubleshooting steps.

If there are no error codes in the diagnostic memory and no leaks are visible, install a new engine control unit (part number 038 906 019 MQ).


- The KD control unit has the coding 00012.
- Please code the engine control unit using the vehicle's self-diagnostic system to the value 00012.

Billing instructions.

...




Okay, I have an appointment at the workshop on December 12th, and I hope they can fix the problem this time.


By the way, to all those who doubt the effectiveness of PD (especially Ulf ),

The AXR engine differs significantly from the ATD and other PD engines, as expected.
The AXR engine was fitted with new fuel injection components that not only improve the atomization of diesel fuel but are also designed to significantly reduce the load on the timing belt drive. Furthermore, starting in September 2001 (with the start of AXR production), the timing belt was reinforced again.
Could this mean the timing belt will actually last longer now?
The AXR will likely be the only "old" TDI engine to ever be used in the Golf 5 (so, am I a guinea pig for VW?).

Hello Bertil,

That sounds good! It would be useful for the error database.

Best regards, Rainer.

Rainer K. wrote:

That sounds good!

It would be useful for the error database.

Yes, but without my silly remarks .

I just hope it works – we'll know more on Friday!

Hi Bertil.

Bertil wrote:

Now, on December 12th, I have an appointment at the workshop, and I hope that the problem can be fixed now.

We also - please keep us updated!

I would also like to know if there is a similar engine control unit replacement program available for the 96 kW version, which is also prone to jerking.

Quote:

In the AXR engine, new PD elements were installed that not only improve the atomization of the diesel fuel but are also designed to significantly reduce the load on the timing belt drive. Furthermore, starting in 9/2001 (i.e., with the start of AXR production), the timing belt was reinforced again.

So, apparently WV still saw problems there, which officially never existed .
Are the HighTech² injectors only intended for the 74 kW engine, and is it excluded that the improvements be transferred to higher performance levels?

Quote:

The AXR will likely be the only "old" TDI engine to ever be in a Golf 5 (Am I therefore an experiment for VW???).

You can probably be sure that the VAG banana product range is poisonous - but you are certainly not alone in that feeling.
Do you know any more details about why those other engines are no longer supposed to be used in the Golf 5?

ulf wrote:

...please keep us updated!

Sure thing!

Quote:

I would also like to know if there is a similar engine control unit replacement program available for the 96 kW version, which is also prone to jerking.

Not known!

Quote:

So, apparently WV still saw problems there, which officially never existed . Are the HighTech² injectors only intended for the 74 kW engine, and is it excluded that the improvements be transferred to higher performance levels?

There have never been any major problems, just occasional isolated incidents. I think the injectors will eventually be used in other engines as well. And definitely, the timing belt is already being installed everywhere!

Quote:

You can probably be sure that the VAG banana product range is poisonous - but you are certainly not alone in that belief .

is known .

Quote:

Do you know any more details about why the other engines are no longer supposed to be used in the Golf 5?

Can you calculate... ... the AXR is the only TDI engine that meets the D4 (EU4) standard, which has been mandatory since 2004. If the new Golf is to be presented in autumn 2003 (planned), it would be unwise to install an EU3 engine. New engines for the fourth generation are not currently planned.
More information about the new VW engines?

- The new engines will likely have gears instead of timing belts (see the V10 TDI in the Touareg).
- Valve technology to meet the planned EU5 emissions standard even without a particulate filter (Volkswagen is opposed to particulate filters because they require the use of environmentally harmful additives - Peugeot, DC).
- ...

Hi,

Yep, the new TDIs will have 16 valves.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'I am aware of the following versions:'

1.9 liter PD 8V engine, 100 horsepower, 240 Nm of torque (see AXR from Bertil).
2.0 liter PD 16V engine, 136 horsepower, 320 Nm torque.
2.0 liter PD 16V engine, 180 horsepower, 400 Nm of torque.

But personally, it brings tears of joy to my eyes that the good old inline five-cylinder engine with a 2.5-liter displacement is making a comeback in Audi and VW cars *dreamy look*: 2.461 cc, 5 cylinders, 185 hp, and 450 Nm.
Besides the engine block, it's unlikely that there will be many similarities between this and the older 1T, AAT, and AEL engines.

Markus H. wrote:

...Besides the block, it will likely have few similarities to the good old 1T, AAT, and AEL engines.

Unfortunately, even the engine block will not be the "old" one, because the new five-cylinder engine is essentially half of a V10 and therefore no longer uses a timing belt but instead gears. This requires a new engine block .
The engine will be used in a VW bus next spring (I've already seen it) .

I still doubt that the five-cylinder engine will make a comeback in Audi models, especially since a 2.5L V6 with direct injection (!!!!) and a timing chain is expected to be introduced this spring.
Why use a 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine then? The V6 will certainly be smoother running (which is important for Audi).

The days of beautifully sounding, raspy engines at Audi are (unfortunately) long gone.

By now, everyone should be aware of what's happening with VW and PD (Pumpe-Düse) technology. I would advise everyone to look for an alternative to the VW PD injectors in gasoline engines and find one. VW probably would take mine back now, but unfortunately, it's not that simple because it's been reimported and already driven 21,000 km. Bosch has also contacted me recently and wants to examine my injectors in Stuttgart.
Let's see, I'm holding off on the drastic measures for a bit longer, to see if another solution can be found, and continuing to vibrate a little more (although the intensity of the vibrations is inversely proportional to the outside temperature -> currently less .

Hopefully, it stays as cold as possible for as long as possible!

Best regards,

Thomas.

Hi,

@Bertil:
Oh, not even the old building anymore?
However, I often read that the exact engine displacement is 2.461 cc.
It's exactly the same as the old 5-cylinder engine.
Could it not be the case that the V10-TDI is made up of two 5-cylinder engines ?
I also read something about potential use at Audi (but I think it was on a website called 'Auto-Blöd'...). Who knows, maybe Audi will also build a van with a 5-cylinder engine, like VW .

Markus H. wrote:

@Bertil: Oh, not even the old building anymore?

"Too bad, huh..."

Quote:

However, I often read that the exact engine displacement is 2.461 cc. It's exactly the same as the old 5-cylinder engine.

... that's just the way it is when you reach for something on a shelf.

Quote:

Could it not be the case that the V10-TDI is made up of two 5-cylinder engines ? I also read something about a potential application at Audi (but I think it was on "Auto-Blöd"...). Who knows, maybe Audi will also build a van with a 5-cylinder engine, like VW

.

Yes, the V10 is a dual five-cylinder engine. It even has two ECUs (one for each bank).
By the way, the "new" five-cylinder engine should not be much longer than the 827 (current four-cylinder engine - since 1974!!!), so that it can be installed transversely.

Hi,

Okay, okay, I surrender (sigh).
Well, on the other hand, there were also plenty of people who didn't think the old 5-cylinder engines were that great.

And you're right, it's supposed to be able to be mounted transversely (even in a Golf 5 or that new Golf 5 Country). It's barely possible with the old one; it fits lengthwise in the C4 just so that it doesn't stick out at the front...

P.S.:
Great that you were able to get the 'wobble-rattle-jiggle' issue fixed.
I know how frustrating that can be – you can't really enjoy the rest of the car anymore because all you see is the problem.

Hi,

Here are the results from Friday:

"When I went to pick up the car from the workshop on Friday afternoon at 4:00 PM, it wasn't ready yet, which was already suspicious because a control unit (STG) replacement shouldn't take that long. When I returned to the workshop again at 5:00 PM, the car was parked in the parking lot and ready for pickup. A service master was supposed to explain what had been done, but all I got was "…we did something, try it out…" He wouldn't confirm that a control unit had been replaced and avoided giving any explanations. After the warm-up phase, I stopped on the side of the road, and... it vibrated like a Lanz tractor! At least the jerking after the acceleration phase was gone."

This morning, I started looking into what had been done, and that's when the first shock came: VAG COM reported a fault code of 038 906 019 CR !!! So, it was exactly the control unit that shouldn't be there anymore . After further inspection, I found a screw in the supply line to the EGR valve . Therefore, only the EGR system had been deactivated (what did they actually do for two days?). Now I'm driving around with a car that doesn't have the required approval documents !!!! And all of this was installed by a so-called "specialist workshop"!!!!

On Monday, there will probably be a bomb explosion in this workshop.


...to be continued.

Hello Bertil!

How similar the stories of suffering are...
That's just so incredibly typical of VW, it couldn't be more stereotypical, and even though it's really, really sad, I actually had to laugh when I read your report. But I know that feeling of being ripped off by VW all too well (maybe you've already read about this somewhere else, but recently, the technical service department from Wolfsburg recommended that I turn off the engine while driving, because then it wouldn't vibrate anymore, and that would be more environmentally friendly anyway... They also said that an engine isn't meant to run at idle, that's just a minor, insignificant operating state. Well, and so on and so forth.'

Currently, my situation is that I want to file a claim for depreciation. However, Bosch has contacted me. They will be bringing my TDI to Stuttgart in January for a detailed inspection. I will definitely wait and see what they find. Absolutely nothing competent can be expected from VW .

Best regards, Thomas.

Hi Thomas,

I have an advantage in that regard... I know the right people at WOB, as I work in the service department of a (not exactly small) supplier to the VAG group. My job even oversees customer quality. We receive complaints when equipment doesn't function as it should. However, my VAG dealer has no idea about any of that .
In the meantime, I "borrowed" the AXR from my tenant (using a STG loan) and lo and behold, the vibrations are gone!!! So there is a working service solution from VW!!

Bertil wrote:

In the meantime, I "borrowed" the AXR from my tenant (using a STG loan) and lo and behold, the vibrations are gone!!! So, there is a working service solution from VW!!

Hi Bertil.

Sure, but that will probably be used as a last resort because it's expensive...
You could try using the deactivated AGR system first.

If I were you, I would tell the workshop that since the intervention, there's been a persistent error message "Mass airflow sensor signal implausible" (which should be there due to the EGR modification), and that's why you want a new mass airflow sensor.

If you've managed to verschandeln that up (hopefully successfully), the error entry is still there, and then you can use your experience from your tenant's complaint process to demand a truly working solution.

It would certainly be quite amusing for me to give those specialists a taste of their own medicine .

@bertil,

'VAG tuners only use water when they modify engines, and preferably cold water. I find the thing about the AGR (Abgasrückführung - exhaust gas recirculation) to be an outrageous insult! Maybe your workshop hasn't heard about the changes regarding the engine control unit yet!'
or they didn't know how to invoice Volkswagen for it!