96kW TDI ASZ Idle Vibration Issues

Hello!

I've been driving a Golf Variant with a 130 hp TDI engine (ASZ/ERF) since March.
It's a nice engine, but it has a tendency to vibrate strongly when idling while warming up. I've had issues with Volkswagen because they are aware of this problem (they've replaced the flywheel and PD element, but it still vibrates), and now they say it's simply 'standard' for this model (according to VW).
'Other people are experiencing the same problem, but VW isn't doing anything about it. It seems there are only three possible solutions:'
to live with it (and not be happy about it)
2) Start a war with VW (it won't achieve anything because you are unable to solve the problem, and depreciation is not my goal, but rather a vibration-free idle).
3) I'd like to try the self-help methods suggested in the forum above (changing certain engine parameters - login 12233, etc. - using equipment that I would have to buy). However, I'd prefer to understand better what I'm doing before I proceed.

I'm leaning towards option 3 for various reasons, but the question is where to get the information that you can then use with software like VAG-COM (because Erwin (siehe Fehlerdatenbank) seems impractical, and I don't think it contains all the really important details).
Only those who HAVE documentation explaining what these adaptation channels are for and what effects these adjustments have can truly understand. For example, does modifying values in these channels affect exhaust emissions, such as by changing injection quantities?

It would be great if someone had information, especially about the vibrations of the 130hp TDI engine mentioned above!

You're welcome.
Thomas.

Hi Thomas,

... only 2 questions:

1. Has the problem existed since delivery, or has it become worse over time?

"Have you ever had the opportunity to compare it with other 130 models? If so, how do they behave?"

Hello Ulf,

The vibrations were definitely present from the beginning. The two repair attempts by Volkswagen only changed the type of vibration (the replacement of the flywheel had an effect, while the replaced PD element did not).
'Unfortunately, I don't have a direct comparison to the other 130 drivers because this engine is somewhat rare, but I know that others also experience it. Apparently, even for Volkswagen, it's not reproducible when it occurs and when it doesn't.'
Im Vergleich zum 110 PS TDI AHF (180.000 km gefahren) läuft der PD jedenfalls generell IM VERGLEICH wie ein Traktor, von den Vibrationen ganz abgesehen. Leistung und Drehmoment sind dafür selbst im Originalzustand phantastisch und der Verbrauch trotzdem genauso super niedrig wie beim 110, aber in puncto Laufkultur wünsche ich mir die Verteilereinspritzpumpe zurück. Definite.
I sincerely hope that I will get rid of this problem...

Regards,
Thomas.

"Well, I've only been driving a TDI for three weeks, but my 100 horsepower TDI occasionally does that too when it's warm. But I have an appointment with VAG next week. Should I cancel it?"

Hello Thomas,

I have an AJM (115 PD). Compared to my AHF, the smoothness of operation is noticeably better.

Hello!

ich weiß ja nicht, was bei Dir (Bertil) für ein Problem vorliegt, aber ich habe den strengen Verdacht, daß Dir dasselbe wiederfahren wird wie mir. Auch der 'Techniker' vom Werk, der sich das bei mir angesehen hatte, sagte eben das sei Serienstand (übersetzt=normal). Und er hatte zugegeben, dass ich nicht der einzige bin, auf direktes mehrfaches nachfragen. Dabei gewinne ich immer mehr den Eindruck, dass VW diesem Phänomen (einer hats, der andere nicht und das auch noch in allen denkbaren Schattierungen der Intensitäten dazwischen) einfach selber völlig hilflos gegenübersteht. DeI will also try to connect with others who are experiencing this problem, in addition to self-help efforts, and explore the possibility of sharing information through public channels (such as television, if someone is willing to broadcast it).VW is selling engines that vibrate when idling, and the 'expert' technicians – and this is really true! – recommend that customers sitting in the vibrating car simply turn off the engine because it's supposedly more environmentally friendly, and then the vibrations will stop. My pregnant wife felt sick from the vibrations, which means the usability is definitely reduced, not to mention the lack of driving pleasure.

Thomas TDI130 wrote:

Deshalb werde ich neben den Selbsthilfe versuchen, mich mit anderen dieses Problem betreffend zusammenzuschließen und über die Öffentlichkeit (Fernsehen, wenn es jemand senden will, dass VW Motoren verkauft, die im Leerlauf vibrieren und die Kompetenztechniker einem -das ist wirklich wahr !- im vibrierenden Auto sitzend empfehlen, den Motor auszumachen, das sei sowieseo ökologischer und dann vibriere es auch nicht mehr) Druck auszuüben. . . .

Hi Thomas,

You might be able to reach a larger number of people who are experiencing similar problems through the new "Gute-Fahrt" forum...

Hi!

Take a look inside here.
http://gute-fahrt.de/board/showthread.php?s=4f9dd57b49cbf916ad1f9d50cf183651&threadid=447

Best regards,
Uwe

Hello Thomas,

Have you ever read out the values of the idle speed control system? If so, could you please post them?

Perhaps adjusting the idle speed (adaptation, see error database) might help.

Hi Michael,

(and also Bertil, who likes to discuss pumps).

I was also thinking about the idle speed control system.

In the VP 37, certain masses must be moved back and forth in sync with the injection sequence (control valve and regulating slide), which limits the "operating speed" (due to the inertia of the mass against the magnetic control force).

In the case of proportional valves, each valve can be controlled completely independently of the others, which theoretically allows for a flow rate difference to be achieved between zero and full load.

If the software-based control characteristics were designed to be somewhat too "aggressive," such that the system could become unstable with certain combinations of mechanical, electrical, and hydraulic properties of the engine, dual-mass flywheel (DMF), and clutch components, without being dampened by any internal inertia –
In my opinion, this would explain the failure of various repair attempts and provide further evidence of Volkswagen Group's typical "banana model" policy (where products mature at the customer's expense rather than through in-house long-term testing – saving development costs and allowing them to launch new technologies "first" to market and profit from consumers' desire for novelty).

What do you think about it?

HI.

VW has repeatedly read out the idle speed control and everything else, and they say that all the values are within the normal range. (I believe this was the display with the constantly changing values, which VW claims represents the functioning control system). Unfortunately, I can't post those values because the workshop did it. However, I'm considering buying the equipment myself and finding someone who knows how to do it, which is why I'm here. I would be very grateful if someone could describe exactly what you need and where you can find information about these adaptation channels and everything related to them, including idle speed, fuel injection quantity, etc. Ideally, if there's anyone near me (26871 Papenburg-Aschendorf) who could help.'I know someone who already has the necessary equipment, and I could potentially stop by there. The workshop is having some difficulties... for understandable reasons. They would need approval from higher up first.'

About Ulf:
I think you're right.

Regards,
Thomas.

Hello Thomas,

The values of the idle speed control should (or, based on my experience) not be constantly changing. They indicate, for each cylinder, the amount that needs to be injected more or less in order to achieve the smoothest possible operation.

If this is the case for you, it suggests that your control loop may be experiencing problems (see also Ulf's post).

HI.

As I said, I'm not sure if that was this specific ad or something else. It happened too quickly, and I saw it for the first time. However, I'm even more certain that I should take a closer look at it myself.

Regards,
Thomas.

Hi Thomas,

Regarding your question about what you need:

- An OBD-2 adapter (either solder it yourself, see the thread at the top and on the homepage, or buy one).
- a laptop or computer within driving distance.
- VAG-COM (the demo version is sufficient for a first look).

That's all for now. And knowing where things are located is basically all contained within the error database here on this page.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hello,

I've been driving a Seat Ibiza with a 96 kW TDI engine for just over a month now, and the thing runs as smoothly when idling as a gasoline car does (whether it's cold or warm)!

I cannot confirm this phenomenon, and I hope it remains that way!

Best regards,
André.

Hi,

Today I went to a VAG dealer. When I described the problem with my TDI, which was vibrating, he said: "...is that a 74kW engine? I had a similar issue just yesterday...". He couldn't promise me a solution because he needed to consult with VW about it.
The error doesn't always appear for me, but now I at least know how to trigger it (a VAG mechanic told me – and it works 100%!).
Warm up the engine, then come to a stop. Shift the transmission into neutral and release the clutch; the engine will shake like an old tractor. Now, depress the clutch pedal and keep it pressed (without engaging a gear). After a short moment, the engine will run very smoothly!

To me, it looks more like there's a problem with the clutch. When the clutch is disengaged, there's no vibration, but when it's engaged, the issue appears. It could also be related to software problems with the EDC (Electronic Damping Control).

In my opinion, the problem with the clutch is related to the third gear in my car. When I have the caravan attached, it's very difficult to engage and requires a lot of force. The expression on the VAG mechanic's face after that attempt was quite interesting . Without the caravan, the gearbox doesn't cause any problems at all.

I will keep you updated.