Starter Motor Removal: VW Golf 3 Guide

Hello.

"I'd like to take the opportunity to remove and inspect my starter motor at some point, to check if any screws are loose and could potentially fall into the clutch, and to see if there's anything else I can do internally, such as resoldering electrical connections, to improve its performance (especially warm starts)."

I have 3 repair manuals for the car, and of course, each one goes into detail about different things.

Here's how it's done:
Since the front engine mount is secured with the starter bolts, a motor hoist, crane, or workshop jack is needed for removal... Secure the engine with straps or supports to relieve the load on the engine mount...

Repair manual 1210:
Jack up the car from the front... (otherwise, only cable and screw work is described).

Now I'm helping myself.
Engine and transmission... support with a jack so that the engine block doesn't sag downwards when loosening the starter bolts.

Now, looking at the engine mount in question, besides the screw next to the starter, I see two other screws that go into the engine block from the passenger side. Shouldn't these two screws, in my opinion, hold the engine block in place even after loosening the (largest) screw that goes through the starter, without needing any additional support?

Can anyone give me some tips based on their experience with a Golf 3 (1997 model)?

Hi.
Okay, you definitely need to hang or support the engine.
If you don't support it properly, everything will collapse, and the bracket itself might bend. It's almost impossible to straighten the screws afterwards.
"I always start by loosening the motor mount from the crossmember, then I lift the engine so that there's about 2cm of space between the motor mount and the crossmember. This relieves the tension from the mount, and it also makes it much easier to reattach the mount later."
Otherwise, there's nothing important to say. Just loosen all the screws.

The explanation now refers to the 020 gearbox. However, I think it works the same way for yours.

Hi,
'So, when I removed my starter motors, I didn't disconnect anything because there were still two other screws holding the engine in place. I also didn't have any problems putting everything back together.'
Regards,
Maik.

Hello.

So, here, so far, it's 1:1 .

I'm going to take a closer look at the situation, and I'll probably support the engine as a precaution.

Thank you for your (and future) responses!

Hi Ulf,

If my memory of the 020 gearbox is correct, it's held in place by a total of five screws: two at the top, one at the rear, and two on the starter motor, which also simultaneously hold the front torque support. Why should the gearbox come loose?
The only difference between the "old" 827 engines and the "new" ones is the arrangement of the engine mounts. My Jetta has four engine mounts arranged in a way that allows it to rock from side to side. The Golf3 only has three (one on the right rear, one on the left rear, and one in the front). Therefore, when removing the torque strut (engine mount in the front), you should prevent the engine from tilting forward.

Bertil wrote:

Therefore, when removing the torque strut (front engine mount), you should prevent the engine from tilting forward.

Yes... it seems that all 3 screws that need to be removed to take out the starter also pass through the front engine mount.

Therefore, I suppose I'll just have to support the engine, as you suggested.

ulf wrote:

Therefore, I suppose I will just have to support the engine, as you say.

Hi Ulf,

I used a sturdy wooden beam, drilled a hole through it, and inserted a threaded rod from the spring compressor -> it works perfectly, and the motor is "height-adjustable" if a screw doesn't want to go in. However, I would support the beam on the fender ridges .

haehnlein wrote:

I used a sturdy wooden beam, drilled a hole through it, and inserted a threaded rod from the spring clamp -> it works perfectly, and the motor is "height-adjustable" if a screw doesn't fit. However, I would support the beam on the fender ridges

.

Hi Christian,

I've also been thinking about something "temporarily solid" like that, but I haven't figured out the ingredients yet --> thanks for the tip .

Hi,
Okay, so far, a standard hydraulic jack has worked fine for me. Of course, it depends on how often you need to do something like that. In my case, it happens about 2-3 times a year, so I'll stick with the jack, because it also has a height adjustment .

Best, Andy.

Andy wrote:

So far, in my case, a completely ordinary car jack has worked for that purpose.

Hi Andy,

Where are you going to put it?

Andy wrote:

Hi, I encounter cases like that about 2-3 times a year.

Do you deliver newspapers, or why do you have to replace your starter motor 2-3 times a year?

Hi,

@haehnlein:
For example, by placing a piece of carpet under the oil pan.


Hi,
I encounter cases like that about 2-3 times a year.


Do you deliver newspapers, or why do you have to replace your starter motor 2-3 times a year?

@Cord:
So far, I haven't needed to use it on my Golf, but there are enough aging vehicles from the VAG group within my family and circle of acquaintances that occasionally need repairs. While most of them are gasoline engines, there's also more space .

Hello.

I also had my starter motor out today.
I lifted the engine block at the front engine mount (leaving one screw in place) by attaching a rope loop and a spring-loaded bolt with a claw to an old fence post, and then levering it slightly upwards from the front mount.

Removed the battery and its mounting bracket, placed a mirror at the bottom of the battery well (to help locate the lower starter bolt), and then everything could be accessed from above.

The stator's magnetic field is actually generated by permanent magnets .

Resoldering didn't pay off for me - I once measured the voltage drop at the crimped and spot-welded connections with 5 A from the lab power supply -> 0.1 mV . I won't stiffen the copper braids to the carbon brushes with solder for that.

I then re-greased the planetary gearbox (a nice little toy...) and reinstalled it. It starts cold just like it did before, let's see what happens when it warms up.

One more question: how do you actually get the brush holder out of the rear housing, in order to possibly replace the carbon brushes ?

[quote="ulf"]Hello.


Resoldering didn't pay off for me - I once measured the voltage drop at the crimped and spot-welded connections with 5 A from the lab power supply -> 0.1 mV , and I'm not going to stiffen the copper braids to the carbon brushes with solder for that.

[/quote]

Hello Ulf,
I think the idea of resoldering was mine. Regarding the starter (with permanent magnets ), after some critical questioning in the forum, I already had some doubts, and I haven't done anything different than you did. I also tightened the nuts on the connections at the magnetic switch. I soldered the power cable and the ground cable that comes from the battery, on both ends. These are usually crimped. I removed them and partially stripped the insulation. I soldered using a gas flame, solder, and flux, which heating technicians use for copper pipes. A soldering iron certainly wouldn't be able to do that. Unfortunately, I didn't measure the voltage drop, so I can only compare the starting behavior, and that's still as good now as it was after the improvement, after several weeks of continuous testing. I can only recommend it.

The voltage drop at 5A is already concerning because the starter motor certainly won't do anything with that. It likely draws 50A during starting, resulting in a significantly higher voltage drop than 0.1V. Now, if I consider that I've eliminated 4 such "weak points," that could explain my success. As I said before, I used to have constant cranking that made me worry about getting home, but now it starts immediately and takes a maximum of 1 second.

Best regards,
Andreas

98er_alh wrote:

I soldered the power cable and the ground cable coming from the battery, soldering both ends of each. These are usually crimped. I removed them and partially stripped the insulation. I soldered using a gas flame, solder, and flux, which heating technicians use for copper pipes. A soldering iron certainly wouldn't be able to do that.

Hi Andreas,

Okay, so, resoldering the thick cables... I also do that routinely on every car, before the crimp connections start to corrode. Because the solder adheres best to bare metal .

You can also use a soldering iron: 2 pieces of 80-watt irons will reliably heat 25 mm² cables to soldering temperature within 5 minutes after being plugged in .

Quote:

The voltage drop at 5A is already concerning because the starter motor certainly won't do anything with that. It will likely draw 50A during starting, resulting in a correspondingly higher voltage drop than 0.1V.

Even if we assume 500 amperes, only 10 millivolts are lost at the brush interfaces (did you overlook the "m"?).
Since the starter motor has two + and two - brushes, the loss is halved on each side, and when the + and - brushes are added together, the resulting voltage is exactly the aforementioned 10 mV.

On the other hand, with 500 amps flowing through 1 meter of 25 mm² copper cable (estimated total length between the battery and the starter), approximately 0.35 volts are lost, which is about 35 times more than in the area of the carbon brushes.

Do you still believe that there are noticeable improvements to be achieved through re-soldering in the area of carbon brushes ?

No.
I've never believed or done that before. So far, I've only talked about the battery cables, and I've only tried soldering those, and that's what worked for me.
Best regards,
Andreas