What is the purpose of TDI tuning roller measurements?

Hello,

Some tuners offer custom tuning services on a dynamometer, which naturally cost significantly more than simply installing or soldering the standard software.

I wonder what could possibly be done in a meaningful way.
Log data from important processes can also be obtained in the field with less effort, for example: Boost pressure overboost.
You can often see how much the engine is producing soot just by observing it on the road. For example, if someone is watching from behind while the car is briefly accelerating to around 4500 rpm, you might be able to see the smoke. If necessary, the electron microscope magnification can be reduced further until the soot image becomes acceptable.
The rest of the tuning can be defined so precisely in the software that no further checks on the dynamometer are necessary, except for the actual torque curve within the limits of hardware tolerances.

The only thing for which a dyno run might be worthwhile, in my opinion, would be to measure the air-gas temperature. However, to do that, you would need to drill a hole in the exhaust manifold, or... Remove sections of the EGR pipes to allow for sensor installation.
If one can simulate a sufficiently long Vmax run using a dynamometer test bench, such that the exhaust gases heat up the entire area up to the turbine to its maximum extent and truly measure the maximum AGT (AGT = Abgastemperatur, exhaust gas temperature), then and only then can one obtain data that are not easily obtainable on the road.

But is such an effort really part of the usual individual adjustments made by tuners?
Or is it just a technically largely pointless add-on business, since the word "individual" (instead of "standard") triggers the "treating yourself" mentality in many customers?

So, you would be testing software in a public transportation environment?
Using a test bench provides more peace of mind than a road test. As the name suggests, the "stand" allows anything to happen and anything to come out of the exhaust without endangering anyone else.

I think that's more of a matter of conscience, something like "Good, it's individually tailored" with a certificate for buttock augmentation.
Many tuning companies advertise that each chip needs to be individually tuned. Anything else would be sloppy work.
I believe that professional tuners, like Rainer for example, don't need such things because the datasets are informative enough.

I also can't imagine how to measure the aerodynamic drag (AGT) in this case, as it's unlikely that any wind tunnel blower could provide airflow at 200 km/h or higher to the engine and its cooling system.
So, this is the range where most modern TDI engines reach their peak power (P-max), typically around 4000 RPM.

The dynamometer is probably only useful for people who can't sleep without confirmation that their car has a certain horsepower, or who need the certificate for bragging rights at their regular hangout.

Quote:

Or is this just an additional business that is largely technically meaningless

That's probably often the case. But there's one thing you're forgetting. My tuning, for example, with modifications in the partial load range (NEFZ), is certainly no longer EU4 compliant in terms of NOx emissions, etc.
For tunings that only affect performance at wide-open throttle (WOT) and do not have any relevance to the emissions testing cycle, the air-gas temperature (AGT) might be the only interesting piece of information.
However, for all ECO tunings, monitoring emissions is fundamentally very important. Furthermore, there are likely limits for soot emissions, etc., even under full throttle. "Ideally, one would need to carefully monitor all of this on a test bench with a lot of measuring equipment."

Anything else is and remains tax evasion.

I can't tell you what tuners who offer, for example, a TDI software for €500, are doing behind the scenes. But, as Deus already mentioned, check the logs in the 5th section. "Gang WOT etc. are neither always feasible within the scope of traffic regulations nor always safe. For example, if there is an error in the pre-control settings, the system might enter emergency mode during a logging operation, etc."

If you want to do tuning 100% professionally, you need a dynamometer. And you need to perform all the calculations, as you always say, using an "online simulator." Only in this way can you achieve results for things like boost control that are as good or better than factory. That's how we do it at the university, for example, with the Formula Student engine (a 600cc Suzuki). But more in terms of power/torque...


Hi FabiaCombiTDI,

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

Anything else is and remains tax evasion.

What you know .
What the customer then does with it, whether they use it on public roads according to traffic regulations or on a racetrack, is their responsibility.

Furthermore, I believe that if one consistently pursues "Spritspar-Tuning," one should focus more on parameters than on exhaust values, as extreme improvements in exhaust emissions can sometimes be a reason why modern TDI engines don't consume even less fuel. Keywords here are NOx emissions or exhaust aftertreatment.

Anything that doesn't conform to the reviewed data is a gray area, regardless of whether the emission values are met or not.

In this regard, "individual" votes are essentially a thing of the past, as the costs for the necessary expert opinions are prohibitive for ordinary people.

I suppose tuning could be allowed, and I'm quite sure that was the original intention behind the relevant legislation. However, none of those involved a) really understood what they were deciding, and b) only saw dollar signs, or rather Swiss franc signs, and rolling rubles in their eyes.
It's economically uninteresting when something is both legally sound and good. Period.

I'm not a social welfare office, and I'm not using my working hours to bail out the empty state coffers, just so that, perhaps sometime in the distant future, those investments might finally pay off.
Apart from that, Germany has other problems besides whatever random noises are coming from pipes, and it might be a good idea if the representatives of the people focused on the really important things first.

Best regards, Rainer.

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

But as Deus already said. Logs in the 5th. "Gang WOT etc. are neither always feasible within the scope of traffic regulations nor always safe. For example: if you make a mistake in the pre-charging process, it can trigger an emergency mode in the middle of a logging operation, etc.

This sounds very much like a newly developed tuning software."

My question concerns the "individual tuning" of a customer's engine, where the tuner already has a pre-made software that is then (supposedly) fine-tuned on the dyno specifically for that engine (and its tolerances, etc.).

Then there's still things like: the perfect boost pressure control - better than from the factory. I've even seen logs from RK that were better than the standard configuration. Or actually achieving the torque curve. Or, more precisely, strictly adhering to the emission limits. There are certainly many reasons – things one COULD do.

During my search for a tuner back then, no one explained to me exactly what they do on a test bench. "The tuning process takes about one working day..." However, they were able to explain the concept of "Spritspar-Tuning" to me there.

Quote:

Sometimes, improvements in exhaust emissions are a reason why modern TDI engines don't consume even less fuel, with keywords like NOx or exhaust aftertreatment.

I mentioned that I have an Spritspar-Tuning system installed. And I know why - approximately 10% of the fuel is consumed even when driving extremely economically with an AXR engine.

Okay, Ulf:
You could also, according to your idea, reduce the boost pressure at partial load on a test bench to achieve fuel consumption reductions. However, those who don't experiment here may be penalized with clogging. Or, if the "file" contains different boost settings for partial load, you can eliminate any surging on a test bench without any rush. (Mine tends to surge around 980-1030 rpm with 5-7mg/H quite often.) It would be extremely difficult to reproduce that in a real-world setting.

Ultimately, a dynamometer would be a great thing for you, but it's pointless for most tuners for actual tuning purposes. And as you know, there aren't many good, active EDC15 tuners available...