P0672 / P0673 - Electrical circuit fault, glow plugs?

Hello everyone,

I'm facing a problem where I can't pinpoint the exact cause of the error.
Here's the translation:

"This is about the following vehicle:"
Volkswagen Golf 5.
2.0 TDI BKD
Manufactured in 2004.
205,000 km

Background:
I disconnected the battery to replace the steering wheel. Before installing the new steering wheel, I realized that something was still missing, so I stopped the process and reconnected the battery.

Then I went to get gas (). It took an unusually long time to fill the tank (50 liters), about 10 minutes. This information is important for my conspiracy theory

Code:

Adresse 01: Motorelektronik        Labeldatei: RKS\03G-906-016-BKD.lbl    Teilenummer SW: 03G 906 016 KC    HW: 028 101 190 3    Bauteil: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG  9971     Revision: 12345678    Seriennummer: VWZ7Z0D0829192    Codierung: 0000072    Betriebsnr.: WSC 44458 136 85911    VCID: 6ED589C6799CF06E79B-803B 2 Fehlercodes gefunden: 17056 - Glühkerze Zylinder 2 (Q11)             P0672 - 000 - elektrischer Fehler im Stromkreis              Freeze Frame:                     Drehzahl: 798 /min                     Drehmoment: 70.0 Nm                     Geschwindigkeit: 0.0 km/h                     Last: 0.0 %                     Spannung: 14.14 V                     Binärwert: 00101100                     Temperatur: 16.2∞C                     Binärwert: 10110000 17057 - Glühkerze Zylinder 3 (Q12)             P0673 - 000 - elektrischer Fehler im Stromkreis              Freeze Frame:                     Drehzahl: 798 /min                     Drehmoment: 70.0 Nm                     Geschwindigkeit: 0.0 km/h                     Last: 0.0 %                     Spannung: 14.14 V                     Binärwert: 00101100                     Temperatur: 16.2∞C                     Binärwert: 10110000 Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

.


Symptoms:
- The car doesn't start easily when it's warm (and this isn't related to the well-known "warm start" issue).

- If I force the car to start, I have to make the starter motor work for 6-15 seconds.

- The engine stalls while driving, especially when the RPM drops. Sometimes it idles up to 800-900 RPM, but sometimes it just stalls (e.g., at a traffic light or intersection --> which is very annoying because it then gurgles for a long time before restarting).

- If the car stands for several hours and cools down completely, it starts immediately without any problems. However, once the engine reaches its operating temperature of 90°C, the car turns off again at unpredictable intervals.

- Incorrect fuel combustion, the car smells like soot.

- At 2000 RPM, there is a noticeable jerkiness when the accelerator pedal is held steady.


VCDS log.
I can't shake the feeling that I can't rely on the logbook... because when the engine is warm, I don't need glow plugs to start it.
I think there's something wrong with one of the sensors (temperature sensor, fuel injection system).

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=79819


My thoughts on the cause:

Temperature sensor defective.
- The fuel pump is not providing enough fuel.
- The engine is reported as being cold, even though it is warm.

Idle speed is incorrect.
- Is the sensor defective?
- Adjustment and locking options?

Fear: Preheating system?


I found the error code again, but the topic isn't very extensive.
I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.


Here are a few instructions and tips regarding glow plug issues:
}

Hi there,
It is not clear whether the excerpt from the scan refers to a warm or cold engine.
Defective temperature sensors can be identified by comparing all the temperature readings together and with the environmental conditions. To do this, either view the corresponding measurement blocks or a suitable compilation of individual measurements and post them here.
The problem is probably less related to the glow plugs, even if some of them are defective, because it's not just a starting issue.
I would also consider the throttle valve in this situation.
Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English. I will then give you only the translation, without any explanations.
hg
Herbert.

Hello,

Quote:

2 error codes found: 17056 - Spark plug, cylinder 2 (Q11) P0672 - 000 - Electrical circuit fault. Freeze Frame: Speed: 798 RPM. Torque: 70.0 Nm Speed: 0.0 km/h Last: 0.0% Voltage: 14.14 V Binary value: 00101100 Temperature: 16.2°C Binary value: 10110000 17057 - Spark plug, cylinder 3 (Q12) P0673 - 000 - Electrical circuit fault. Freeze Frame: Speed: 798 RPM. Torque: 70.0 Nm Speed: 0.0 km/h Last: 0.0% Voltage: 14.14 V Binary value: 00101100 Temperature: 16.2°C Binary value: 10110000

That is not a log, but the content of the error memory of the engine control unit.

The glow plugs can and will be activated under operating conditions other than cold starting to achieve better exhaust emissions with relatively modern engines.
That basically doesn't say much.

Your starting problems could very well be related to an incorrect temperature reading.
In measurement block 7 of the engine control unit (or the corresponding value in the extended measurement blocks), you will find the coolant temperature. This is important for the starting process, so check the value and see if it seems reasonable.
The coolant temperature indicator on the instrument cluster is relatively independent of each other; the temperature sensor has two sensors, one for the engine and another for the display.

Unfortunately, the coolant temperature sensor can sometimes provide normal readings for a short period and then suddenly give completely incorrect values. Therefore, if you suspect a problem, it's best to replace it; it costs less than 10 euros from most auto parts stores.

Unfortunately, other factors can also be the cause, such as air or exhaust gases in the fuel system or in the corresponding areas for fuel supply to the cylinder head, hall sensors, etc.

See also:
I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.

and

I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.

Best regards, Rainer.

Thank you in advance for the information.

- The intake manifold flap has only been installed for 2,000 kilometers (it was recently replaced due to a defect).

- I once analyzed the temperature sensors using extended data blocks. Indeed, I'm getting some strange readings (see pictures in the attachment). These occur sporadically; sometimes the normal value is displayed, and other times I get signals with 0°C or "not available" values.
--> The values change during display at a rate of once per second.


I have attached the VCDS Autoscan showing the error related to the glow plugs. I had cleared those errors after the last scan, but this time they didn't reappear; instead, other errors appeared. I have also attached the new Autoscan.

I'm also measuring the resistance on the glow plugs to get a clearer picture of their condition.

Quote:

Address 03: Brake Electronics Label file: RKS\1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl Part number: 1K0 907 379 K Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0104 Encoding: 0023170 Operating number: WSC 00028 028 00104 VCID: 3A7D759675546CCE953-806F "One error found:" 00668 - Voltage at terminal 30. 002 - Lower limit exceeded - Intermittent.

Along with the strange temperature readings (erratic values would indicate a faulty sensor or cable, but the °C are not being converted into volts or a bitmask), is the power supply okay?

Please check the battery, fuses and fuse box, terminal clamps, etc.
If the car doesn't start, please pay close attention to the warning lights on the dashboard and see if any are lit up or not lit up compared to a normal start.

Search the forum for "Relais 109" (it might have a different number for you).

Best regards, Rainer.

I've also read about the issue with relay 109.
I will first check the fuses and other components, and then, as a precaution, I will replace the temperature sensor and relay 109.

If the problem persists, I will start working on the glow plugs/wiring harness – I think that's the most logical approach.

I'll get back to you with new information - thanks so far!

[Translating...]

Statusupdate:

Gewechselt wurden nun:
- Glühkerzen (zwei waren wirklich defekt)
--> Mit Multimeter den Widerstand gemessen, nach dem Ausbau nochmals kontrolliert, indem ich an die Glühkerzen 12V gelegt habe. Zwei sind ganz ausgeblieben.

- Temperatursensor (auf Verdacht gewechselt)
--> Gibt eine Sauerei mit dem Kühlwasser, für Nachmacher: Auffangwanne drunterstellen

- Relais für MSG (auf Verdacht gewechselt)
--> Beim Golf 5 GT (BJ 2005) gibt es keinen Relais 109 mehr. Ich habe hier das Relais 460 (Klemme 75) ausgewechselt

Gereinigt wurde:
- LMM, anhand der folgenden Anleitung: https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=3347
--> In der Tat hat das Loch hinter dem Sensor etwas gebracht, jedoch noch nicht zu 100%. Hierzu habe ich die Messwerte bei Leerlauf und Vollast ausgewertet. Leerlauf ist im Rahmen (zwischen 150-300mg), jedoch brechen mir die Werte unter Vollast zusammen (Vollast = 500-550mg)

Ich habe auf Verdacht nun noch bestellt:
- Sensor für Kurbelwelle (auf Verdacht wird dieser auch gewechselt)
--> Hierzu passen die Symptome, dass der Wagen ausgeht (Drehzahl bei Leerlauf) und das schlechte Anspringen.

- Nach dem Kurbelwellensensor kommt ggf. ein neuer LMM (sofern die Werte wirklich nicht i.O. sind --> hierzu bräuchte ich die langjährige Erfahrung hier)


Fazit nach den aktuell durchgeführten Punkte:
- Ruckeln bei Konstanter Pedalstellung = behoben
- Warmstart = zeit (gefühlt, nicht gemessen) verkürzt

wenn der Kurbelwellensensor gewechselt ist, gebe ich nochmals Rückmeldung.

EDIT:
Dieser Fehler ist leider nach wie vor vorhanden. Eine Idee wie ich den Testen könnte?

Code:

Adresse 03: Bremsenelektronik Labeldatei: RKS\1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl Teilenummer: 1K0 907 379 K Bauteil: ESP FRONT MK60 0104 Codierung: 0023170 Betriebsnr.: WSC 00028 028 00104 VCID: 3A7D759675546CCE953-806F 1 Fehler gefunden: 00668 - Bordspannung Klemme 30 002 - unterer Grenzwert unterschritten - Sporadisch

[Translating...]

Quote:

- LMM, anhand der folgenden Anleitung: https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=3347 --> In der Tat hat das Loch hinter dem Sensor etwas gebracht, jedoch noch nicht zu 100%. Hierzu habe ich die Messwerte bei Leerlauf und Vollast ausgewertet. Leerlauf ist im Rahmen (zwischen 150-300mg), jedoch brechen mir die Werte unter Vollast zusammen (Vollast = 500-550mg)

Mit dem würde ich weitermachen und zwar Original oder Bosch.
Voraussetzung dafür ----> Nockenwelle ok, die Atemwege sind frei und es wird Ladedruck aufgebaut.

Mit dem verzögerten Anspringen hat das aber nichts zu tun. Hier würde ich mal die Batterie prüfen und natürlich die Kabelverbindungen wie schon erwähnt.

Okay, that's why I've become aware of the crankshaft sensor. The camshaft doesn't affect it, otherwise I would have completely different problems .

Battery delivers:
Motor ON = 13.97 V
Engine OFF = 12.7 V
--> Therefore, the battery is not the source of the problem.

The starter motor is also working correctly because:
- The starter motor was only replaced 1.5 years ago (I hope nobody gets mad at me for saying that).
- Engine cold --> Does it start immediately?
- The starter motor isn't weakening; it's been running for a long time before the car starts.

Since the starting times vary with a warm engine (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter), it theoretically shouldn't be the starter motor, otherwise the starting time would always increase (I don't know of any starter that fixes itself ).

As soon as the parts are here, I'll provide more information. If you have any ideas in the meantime, feel free to share them – I welcome all input.

Quote:

Battery delivers: Motor ON = 13.97 V Engine OFF = 12.7 V --> Therefore, the battery is not the source of the problem.

And under load when starting up?

12.7V can sometimes even revive a faulty battery.

I apologize for the fact that no new information has been added here for some time.

Back to the topic.
I've also measured the battery recently, and here are the results:
Ignition off: 12.7V.
Ignition ON: 12.3V
Startup process: 10.xV (I mean I've seen versions like 10.0, 10.1).
Engine ON: 13.7V


Is the voltage during the startup process okay?
Just for your information: There's also an amplifier connected to the same battery, which only powers a subwoofer.

Over the past two weeks, I've noticed that when I don't use the car for a whole day, it takes a little longer to start.

A few weeks ago, we had a Touran, also with a BKD engine, that was very difficult to start when warm and would misfire.

The cause was faulty power distribution units (PDUs). The power cable harness was also replaced.

Unfortunately, this doesn't correlate with the steering wheel replacement that was performed previously.

The voltage drop doesn't seem critical at first glance... although I'm seeing about 10.5V at the starter motor when starting with a healthy battery. However, the crucial factor is the starter motor speed.

Schon mal geprüft ob der abgestellte warme Motor während der Fahrt mit eingelegtem Gang und der Kupplung (ganz kurzer Moment einkuppeln) anspringt...... geht am besten bei 50 km/h und 3. Gabbreviations

But be careful... don't remove the ignition key from the lock while driving...

If it's due to the starter motor or a too-low starting speed...
It should start up on the first rotation of the crankshaft.

That sounds fine - so I don't have to replace the battery .

I hope it's not a problem with the power steering elements. It's "supposedly" unlikely, since they were "only" replaced about 90,000-100,000 km ago... or maybe it is (oh dear... time flies, I'm surprised myself).

ich prüfe das mal mit dem Anspringen bei 50km/h und 3. Okay.
--> The best approach here is to turn off the engine while driving, put it in third gear, and briefly engage the clutch, correct?

Tomorrow, the heat exchanger will be inspected/repaired... I think it's going to be a problem.

Quote:

--> Here, the best approach is to turn off the engine during the descent, put it in 3rd gear, and briefly engage the clutch, correct?

Correct ... very briefly.

P.S.: Has the cabin air filter been in the vehicle for 100,000 km already? If so, you might want to replace it at the same time to rule it out as a potential source of problems. Clogged filters can sometimes cause engine hesitation.

The fuel filter has been replaced every 90,000 km .
I'll report again in a few days.

By the way, I haven't managed to replace the crankshaft sensor yet; it's located right behind the oil cooler .
I might need to jack up the car a bit higher because my equipment at home isn't quite enough for this.

Hi!

There was that thing about the starting speed, wasn't there?
When the engine is warm, the starting process is blocked at a certain RPM, and it only starts after several seconds.
And at -15°C, the engine starts immediately.
I had that problem once; it was the battery.

Maybe check the engine speed with a laptop during the (warm-)start process if it takes a long time.
I don't remember the value anymore.