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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:16 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Hi.
I just had my BMR serviced at the (Volkswagen) workshop.
Previously, with a warm engine idling, I had a crankshaft angle of 0.35°.
Code: |
17:21:15 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
801 /min Motordrehzahl (G28)
5.0 °n.OT Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
3.7°KW Förderdauer (Sollwert)
0.35° Verdrehwinkel
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Now, after the change (engine not fully warmed up, idling), it's 2.23°.
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16:00:31 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
800 /min Motordrehzahl (G28)
5.0 °n.OT Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
4.0°KW Förderdauer (Sollwert)
2.23° Verdrehwinkel
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Should I complain about this, or is it just being too picky?
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:08.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18113 Karma: +800 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 16:29 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Wasn't there something about the direction (+/-) and the timing belt length?
I'm looking for a picture or diagram showing the timing belt routing during a timing belt replacement.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:09.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:32 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Do you mean that the price is still going to fluctuate?
And if so, does it continue to move towards 0.0?
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:09.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18113 Karma: +800 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 16:35 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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IMHO, it should be adjusted slightly later due to belt stretch and the position of the adjuster. +2°KW I would just leave it as is , but it's already trending towards being too late.
Regarding the rotation angle:
I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.
Best regards, Rainer.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:10.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:40 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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I'm just seeing that the golf ball had a handicap of -2.5 before the change, and it was also working perfectly fine.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:10.
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:56 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Do you know the sign conventions?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late ignition timing, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power output.
In a WOT (Wide Open Throttle) log, up to the maximum pressure (Pmax), the compression ratio increases, and the twist angle becomes increasingly "positive" with increasing engine speed.
If you don't already have a BMR log, you might want to get one done.
Gruß Ulf
_________
MG4 Electric
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:11.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 17:18 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Hm,
Damn, things are getting complicated now.
Because I have two camshafts... and also two camshaft gears.
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:12.
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 17:57 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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With NW alignment?
Probably not, unless the suspected calibration errors are resolved...
Gruß Ulf
_________
MG4 Electric
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:12.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18113 Karma: +800 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 19:44 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Quote: | Do you know the sign convention?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late ignition timing adjustment, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power output. |
Sure?
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:13.
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Autoservice Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 04/14/2012 Posts: 2130 Karma: +99 / -0 Location: Nähe Düsseldorf
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18-06-2015, 23:06 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Quote: | | For a 1.9 PD, positive values indicate a late NW adjustment | .
That's how I remember it too. If the net weight is lagging by 2.5 kW, it should increase further over time. I think 3° is probably at the limit of the tolerance.
With the 1.9 engine, it was possible to observe that the synchronization angle shifted towards the positive direction when the engine was revved up.
So... personally, I would have that corrected.
LG, Onkel BM
*Nichts ist einfacher, als sich schwierig auszudrücken......*
**Technische Fragen bitte ins Forum und nicht in mein Postfach**
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:14.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 1:22 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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How is this actually corrected?
In the repair manual for the timing belt replacement, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.
However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole from the locating hole.
Which one should be corrected, both of them?
Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English.
Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:15.
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vwSchrauber Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 09/18/2008 Posts: 1262 Karma: +43 / -0
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19-06-2015, 10:06 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Where is the Northwest position sensor located?
In my opinion, the "EinlassNW" is relevant for the behavior described by Ulf.
selber schrauben - statt Werkstattpfusch
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:16.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18113 Karma: +800 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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19-06-2015, 10:26 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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dieselmartin wrote: | How is this actually corrected?
In the repair instructions for replacing the timing belt, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.
However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole from the locating hole.
Which one should be corrected, both of them?
Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English.
Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now. |
I have some elongated holes in the camshaft gears: https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=26285
I need to check the rotation angle/synchronization angle on my setup. I think I intentionally set it slightly away from "zero" – if that was the wrong direction, that would be a problem...
Edit: Okay, it seems I was right after all, so "-" indicates early!
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Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:18.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 11:13 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Yes.
but:
Only the front, intake camshaft is being measured.
If I now loosen those long bolts, it will change the measured value in VCDS, specifically the timing of that camshaft. I can also check that in VCDS.
But what should I do with the camshaft lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have any measurements for that.
How do I adjust the 0.7 degrees differently? Surely, no one can determine that with their eyes on the camshaft sprocket.
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:20.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18113 Karma: +800 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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19-06-2015, 11:16 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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Quote: | | But what should I do with the cam lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that. |
You adjust it so that when the belts are placed on, both camshafts can be locked in place. The "locking holes" fix the shafts, not the wheels.
dieselschrauber wrote: | | ...So, when buying a timing belt crankshaft sprocket, it's often available in a set that includes a matching locking pin for the camshaft gears. However, since you actually need two locking pins, or it's beneficial to have two, you can just as easily use a Torx wrench of a similar diameter for the second camshaft gear... |
Best regards, Rainer.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:21.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 11:19 Subject: Rotation Angle After Z-R Transformation |
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dieselschrauber wrote: | But what should I do with the eccentric cam - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that. Quote: |
You adjust it so that when the belts are installed, both camshafts can be locked in place. The "locking holes" fix the shafts, not the wheels.
Best regards, Rainer |
OK, thank you.
next question:
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put something extra next to "zero".
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And how? More importantly, how exactly does that work?
In the rep bar, you should push the bypass wheel backward/to the left.
So, did you press harder or softer? |
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 18-09-2026, 23:23.
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