TSI anstatt TDI | Posts 16+

@ maxx1278:
Thank you for your feedback. That's exactly what I was hoping for. Regarding durability, we no longer need to worry, even with high mileage, compared to a TDI driver (of the same performance class, of course), and I am quite confident about that.
Please continue to share your experiences with the TSI if there's anything noteworthy to mention.

@Kai_od
Thank you. I am confident. However, I hope it doesn't lead to the situation you described for the TSI concept. Quite the opposite. I would like families like ours (with two young children) to buy it, and that's because of its advantages now and in the future. It should be about everyday needs like bread and butter, not a niche product for buyers who have money and/or drive on the highway at speeds >200 km/h or want to race each other, or anything like that. With the anticipated mass production driven by demand and its integration into other models (as indicated by VW's statement of intent, and as is well known, they conduct market research), this engine is intended to become the base engine.

Speaking of power, it works with 170 horsepower, but 140 horsepower is on the safe side. Furthermore, official sources state that the concept is also suitable for significantly more power, and VW is playing it safe by sticking with 170 horsepower.

In the Scirocco successor, the 'Iroc,' the 1.4 TSI engine is rumored to deliver even 210 horsepower .

Golf+TSI 140 wrote:

Didn't you become a test driver yourself by pushing your engine to its limits with power and pressure?!

The key specifications of my software are closely based on the standard Ibiza Cupra with 160 horsepower, which in turn is based on the "proven" 150 horsepower ARL engine. And my engine is made up of 99% of the same "proven" parts.

Not to be forgotten:
Being a test pilot (for +30 horsepower), I decided myself to have this option on my car, but I could have also kept the proven and well-developed 130 horsepower level.
Buyers of new developments, however, cannot opt out of being test pilots .

I also think that the TSI engine could definitely handle more power.
There are chip tuners who can increase the power of the TSI engine, with an optional warranty, up to 210 horsepower.
In other forums, people are reporting that even standard GT models have shown power variations of up to +24 horsepower, and that they continue to function properly even after a certain amount of use.
I am confident that VW has already tested the engine quite thoroughly on their test benches, so that it should be able to perform reliably in real-world conditions without major problems.
I personally see a potential weak point in the magnetic coupling of the compressor.
It's actually used quite often, but time will tell.

As someone who used to drive a car with a PD engine, I certainly wouldn't consider myself an advocate for TDI (PD) engines. These are simply brilliant devices that, despite their high performance, also offer excellent fuel efficiency.
My main reason for switching to the TSI engine was primarily the smoother operation of the engine, which resulted in less noise inside the car.
Furthermore, I was attracted by the performance and its delivery, as well as the relatively low consumption for the amount of power it produces.
I could have certainly bought an A3 or A4 (which have much better sound insulation) with a diesel engine, but with my desired configuration, they turned out to be a bit too expensive.

I will definitely keep you updated on my further experiences with the TSI.

LG
Maxx.

@matthiasTDI96

Okay, you've summarized what I'm thinking when I read this text.

@Golf+TSI 140

I'm sorry, but you sound like someone who's trying to justify a decision they made, and you're not allowing anyone to have a different opinion, even if they say something like, 'You did a great job.'
You are free to have your own opinion, but don't get upset if others express theirs, even if it turns out that your own opinion might not be entirely correct from a technical standpoint.

Unfortunately, your statements suggest that you are very strongly influenced by the 'TSI' perspective. Technically, you have the knowledge level of an experienced buyer, but unfortunately, you don't know much about the current development situation at the OEMs.

If you've been following the forum closely, you may have seen what has been written about the durability of modern, high-performance diesel engines.
If you follow the development timelines of modern engines and compare them to 'older' development cycles, such as that of the 1Z engine, you won't even need to ask yourself whether you, as a customer, are essentially a beta tester. You know.
Anyone who presents a 'mature' new engine concept within 4 years and examines the manpower in the development workshops will see what the current state of affairs is.

The basic concept of TSI is quite simple: I take a regular 1.4-liter gasoline engine.
'Then I'll add a turbocharger and a supercharger, and crank the fuel injection system up to maximum. I have experience from motorsports, so I know exactly what will break first with this concept. I'll just make that part more durable. Then, I'll calculate the percentage of full load that's expected during a normal car's lifespan and determine whether this concept is viable. I'll know if I was right and if the simulations are accurate when the first engines are worn out and finished after 4 to 5 years and (hopefully) 160,000 kilometers.' Fortunately, the grace period is now over.
The development of the G40 and G60 clearly demonstrates the same concept. And I won't even comment on the durability of this engine...

By the way, things aren't much different with the modern TDI engines either: The 170 hp engine still relies on the 1Z platform. (That's why I only drive mine with 110 hp ).

I have already written about the technical aspects behind the minimizing concept.
The real-world consumption figures will show how much the actual consumption deviates from the standard cycle when the driver profile does not match it.

The TSI is a good method to make the gasoline engine more fuel-efficient. He will never reach the fuel consumption values of a comparable diesel engine, even if he is artificially modified to consume diesel, as Ulf correctly points out.

Best regards, Jochen.

Consistently lower consumption and emission values, while simultaneously achieving higher performance. Regarding durability, I can only say that the TSI engine with 220 hp (VW, before production start) was tested, and that these engines are tested for a mileage of 300,000 km. I think I've posted this somewhere else before.
I don't think the TSI is necessarily a "DISOTTO." It's a purely gasoline-powered, turbocharged engine. The combination of diesel and gasoline principles is implemented in HCCI (Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition) engines. They have been researching there since 1997 (and my diploma thesis also deals with that topic ).

@matthiasTDI96
Unfortunately, there's no point in replying to your last post, since you mentioned that you no longer want to follow the discussions. Too bad, because otherwise, one could have engaged with the subject matter in a factual and professional manner, using reasoned arguments.

@Jochen_145
I can't understand your opinion, because the opposite of what you're saying is true, and I'm quite sure that when people read the posts, your thoughts are the exception rather than the rule. It's the other way around; I asked a specific question, and completely different topics were brought up, of course, including the durability of the TSI engine, which no one can comment on except for the people at VW who tested it. Everything else is purely speculative or completely unfounded for whatever reason. But thank you for allowing me to have my own opinion and express it. Unfortunately, she was, for example, commented on with not-so-nice vocabulary by someone whose opinion you seem to agree with so much (his), namely matthiasTDI96, using the word "abladen" (which translates roughly to "unload" or "dump"). I'll admit, I'm a little sensitive about that.
I'd be happy to discuss the technology behind TSI and TDI engines with you, matthiasTDI96, or anyone else. I have no reason to hide the foundation of my technical understanding: it's based on a (successfully completed) degree in mechanical engineering from a university. Regarding the TSI, I recommend the self-study program 359 from VW, which you can download from Erwin (siehe Fehlerdatenbank) for about 5 euros. It answers the necessary technical questions for everyone, replacing half-knowledge and perceived knowledge about this engine and its operation with precise and well-founded knowledge about its design and function (compressor, construction, operating principle, interaction between compressor and turbocharger, etc.). If you've also attended lectures on thermodynamics and fluid power machines, etc., then we can discuss things on an equal footing. No, I'm not the greatest, and I don't want to be, and I lack the practical skills to "tinker" with things; that's not my thing. However, I find your accusations to be unfounded. I would say I possess a certain level of technical understanding, but I don't know yours, and therefore I won't judge it.

Again: I didn't have any questions about the durability of the TSI engine; quite the opposite, just read the very beginning again. This topic came up from somewhere else, just like everything else that has been discussed here, but why shouldn't I address it? I'm interested in the whole TSI topic, and I probably take it less seriously than some people here, otherwise you wouldn't see comments like "we (???) don't care what you drive." Hello?
I will not comment on your explanations of the concept behind it, as everyone can and should form their own opinions. However, your last sentence reveals what *you* are really interested in, which is creating a competition between TDI and TSI. That has little to do with what I was/am interested in.
No offense.

@Ulf
I believe I've already mentioned that I've repeatedly and consciously worked as a pioneer and test driver, and I've done so again this time. However, the TSI engine and its components that I purchased were extensively tested by VW for durability, which is unlikely to be the case to the same extent with such a significant modification as the one you've made to your engine. You don't hear much about the ARL engine. Does it even still exist?

Regards,
Thomas.

Always lower consumption and emission values, while achieving ever higher performance.

That would mean that the effect would have been changed, and that is not the case.
Only the change in the usage profile results in the paper-based energy savings.
We already discussed that.

Regarding durability, I can only say that the TSI engine with 220 hp (VW, before the official launch) was tested, and that these engines have been tested for a mileage of 300,000 km . I think I've posted this somewhere else before.

Okay, so that 'endurance run' that's supposedly specified for 300,000 km – you'll have to show me that in Europe first. It's been a long time since they stopped offering this at 200,000 km, as there is no entitlement to any goodwill or similar benefits beyond that mileage.

Typical endurance runs for the 'lifespan' of the engines are 1000 hours. This does not correspond to 300,000 km.
The total vehicle has completed a test run of approximately 45 to 50 thousand kilometers, which corresponds to approximately 200 thousand kilometers of normal load during the construction of the test tracks.

Only Japanese manufacturers specified a service interval of 300,000 km for their 'older, more conservative' vehicles.

Best regards, Jochen.
[/edit] Oh, the little devil of errors, but I found it.

I simply repeated what the good man from the development board of TSI Development presented in his speech.

Golf+TSI 140 wrote:

@Ulf I believe I have already mentioned that I have repeatedly and consciously worked as a pioneer and test driver, and I have done so again this time.

It's good that you, in all your tests (so far), apparently had enough luck to be able to try again and again.

Quote:

Just so that the TSI engine and its components that I purchased (100% of them) were extensively tested by VW for durability

, just like, for example, the well-known "banana" engine series of the 1Z and AJM engines? Then I won't put too much into these 100%.

Quote:

You don't really hear much about the ARL. Does it even still exist?

Of course. However, the first ARL series was probably also one of those "100% stability miracles." In the wild, you're likely to find mostly the heavily revised series, whose parts, as I said, also include the engine in my vehicle (unless the documentation is incorrect).

rubberduck wrote:

I only reproduced what the good man from the development board of TSI Development presented in his lecture.

Was the lecture given at an official event, or at an internal, more "secret" conference? I would only attribute significant factual relevance to the latter.

So,

Amid all this back and forth, one question is burning in my mind:

"How much fuel does a turbocharged gasoline engine actually consume? The brochures always underestimate the consumption significantly." Are there any experiences available yet?

?L/100 in the city?
?L/100 on a country road?

So, you're upset.
I know I said I didn't want to write anything else, so please be sure this is truly the last time. You can interpret my statements however you like. Even though no one here can match your level of expertise in terms of training, and, with reservations, you can't even assume that you can, do you know what we actually do?

My experiences have at least shown one thing: You have to learn to read critically. A VW SSP (Software-Defined Software-Defined Vehicle) is certainly not suitable for discussing pros and cons in an objective context, but as an academic, I'm sure you already know that.
Now that the topic is completely messed up and spiraling out of control, and there's still no reaction to the experiences being shared, it seems to be stuck in a rut.

If you're fixating on words like "banana," let me rephrase it: The car you drive is only important to you. It's not important to me, and it's not important to the others here (that's what I meant by "us"). Furthermore, "abladen" referred to what I considered to be a thought of little value and completely unfounded in the user's first post.

Let's just leave it at that.

You want us to tell you that you did everything right and have reached a new level (I still have to think about the lack of mutual respect between us), and you defend your opinion with knowledge gained from a VW SSP that you bought for 5 euros without a credit card... In the instruction manual for my TV, it is also praised, but it seems the author was wearing rose-colored glasses.
So, what else is there to say? You have your opinion, and I, for my part, have one too. I've driven it myself and don't think the car is bad. That's what I said. The only thing is, it consumes too much fuel. I don't care about its durability, because it's not on my list of desired cars. Otherwise, don't expect too much from people like us. We're here because we drive diesel cars. If things were straightforward, this forum wouldn't exist.
I don't know why this is causing such a stir.

@maxx 1278
I find quite a few parallels between what I've been thinking and what motivated you to switch from a TDI to a TSI. I expect exactly what you're reporting here, but the question is how the 140 horsepower instead of 170 will affect fuel consumption, especially in the Golf+. However, I don't think the difference will be very significant. I expect the increased fuel consumption figures you provided, compared to a 140hp TDI.
What is your experience with high speeds on the highway, because I anticipate potentially significant increases in fuel consumption at those speeds?

@Ulf
My hope is that with the rather weak 140 HP TSI engine, I'm on the safer side. I also have an ASZ engine and always thought that it wasn't mechanically identical to the ARL engine, otherwise I would have considered chip tuning more. But I always found it too risky. Therefore, I tend to trust the manufacturer's claims more than the tuner's claims.
Regarding the warranty, and potentially for those with sensitive or delicate nerves, a warranty extension to 5 years might be an option for the TSI engine, available for an additional fee (something I'm currently considering).

Regards,
Thomas.

I'm actually more of a defensive driver.
Since I record my fuel consumption and other details in Spritmonitor, you can feel free to take a look: CLICK
Since I have a parking heater in my car and I'm currently using it, the onboard computer reading differs from the calculated value.

LG
Maxx.

Golf+TSI 140 wrote:

Regarding the warranty, and potentially for those with sensitive or easily stressed nerves, a warranty extension to 5 years - for a fee - might be an option for the TSI engine (something I'm currently considering)

That would only help me partially, specifically regarding money.

Even though breakdowns and the resulting frustration (often accompanied by the unfortunately common prospect of shoddy repairs, leading to even more frustration) would annoy me, I still want my car to be as reliable as possible, rather than spending its time in the workshop. This is just as important to me as a good power-to-weight ratio and fuel efficiency.

However, it seems that the majority of drivers have a different attitude, and they accept defects in their car and the associated personal inconveniences stoically as an unavoidable fate, a consequence of the model and features they choose.

@maxx,

"Amazing! Under 8 liters per 100km and with an automatic transmission is really impressive! Mine also uses 8 liters, but it barely gets going." My friend's Golf IV 2.0 just won't go below 12 liters per 100 kilometers in fuel consumption.

In that sense, I can understand the excitement, and I can actually imagine that the TSI engine could become a "diesel killer." Especially since he probably won't have any problems with particulate matter.