ZR Qualitätsunterschiede ? | Posts 16+

Deus Violentia wrote:

1. For this case, I would be very interested in any practical experience! Should the WaPu (water pump) be replaced always, or only when it is "too old" or has damage? 2. What do you use? WaPu systems with metal or plastic impeller wheels?

1: Normally, we always do it! But if someone absolutely doesn't want it, then we won't do it, and I'll get a signature stating that there is no guarantee.

Here's a typical example: A Golf IV 1.8l 20V owner refused to have the water pump replaced. "It's still working, and everything's fine," he said. Well, fast forward 120,000 km, and he calls me while on the road: "Hey, my car is overheating." What happened? Logically, the impeller of the water pump had disintegrated.
Result: The cylinder head is cracked because it overheated too much. I wasn't exactly happy about it, but it didn't really make me that sad either.


Regarding 2: If there's metal available, always use metal.

"Something" in the timing belt system of my 1.4 HDI was making a chirping noise. We temporarily removed the serpentine belt to test it - the chirping continued. So, everything needed to be replaced! It was replaced at 100,000 km, otherwise the timing belt would have been due for replacement at 240,000 km.

The water pump (factory-installed) is made of fiberglass-reinforced plastic, has a brass bearing, and a plastic impeller. The replacement part is cast iron with a plastic impeller.

Ultimately, it turned out that the water pump was causing the noise. However, it was still sealed and had no noticeable play. The rest of the timing components, including the tensioner, looked normal. The timing belt looked visually like new. However, since I didn't want to have to take everything apart again so soon, everything was replaced.

The replacement parts: a timing belt kit (including tensioner and pulley set) from Dayco, and the water pump is some Italian brand. It came from Teile Klaus.

Wow, the fuel pump is from Airtex. They offer a warranty, so send everything over.
How many kilometers have you driven so far?
That was only 3 months ago, which is unacceptable. Please resend.

No, you misunderstood! I installed your parts because the factory equipment was making a chirping noise. Your parts have been working perfectly for 11,000 km...

Oh, okay - then that's fine.
Here's how my definition of "guarantee" works.
I was already wondering why he's posting this in the forum and not contacting me directly?
breathe again
Especially since Airtex has extended the warranty on to 3 years .
3 months, 11,000 km - 12 months, 44,000 km?
I'd like to order the next ZR sentence for you.

Always breathe deeply through your pants!! Your express delivery was just as quickly installed.

I personally use and also sell Gates products in large quantities. I also gladly offer ZR sets and Wapus from Herth+Buss, especially for Japanese cars. With HB (Herth+Buss), you can say: "Great price and absolutely no problems." I have had positive experiences with SKF, INA, Ruville, HB, and Febi for rollers and tensioners. However, some of these are often just trade labels with purchased rollers.
I've had negative experiences with ZR (tensioner) and timing belts from the Danish manufacturer Roulunds (they stretched), and with Wapus products, specifically with the Geri and Aquaplus models (impeller came loose). In my Passat, which had a short 60,000 km service interval, the impeller was still attached, but the pump had more issues than it should have, and it was an Aquaplus. Since then, I've preferred SKF and Meyle Wapus products.

TDI-GTI-4-Motion wrote:

Normally, we always do it! But if someone absolutely doesn't want it, then we won't do it, and I'll get a signature stating that there is no guarantee.

What happens if a customer doesn't agree with all of this and goes to a lawyer, claiming that they weren't fully aware of the implications of their decision? Are you legally off the hook with the customer's signature, or does the saying "He who installs is liable" still apply?

Hey everyone!

Steffen W wrote:

TDI-GTI-4-Motion wrote: Normally, we always do it! But if someone absolutely doesn't want it, then we won't do it, and I'll get a signature stating that there is no guarantee. What actually happens if a customer doesn't accept any of this and goes to a lawyer, claiming that they weren't fully aware of the implications of their decision? Are you then legally out of the situation with the customer's signature, or does it again mean "Whoever installs it is liable"?

Slightly off-topic, but Steffen is essentially correct here .
From my industry, I am aware of a court ruling (although I don't have the case number at hand), where it is not sufficient to simply inform a customer, for example, about a defect in the device or system, by obtaining a confirming signature! The court argued, in Steffen's exact words, that the customer was not aware of the actual extent of the issue, or could not be, because no expert
In the latter case, as a responsible professional, one can choose whether to pursue a criminal complaint for property damage (= ensuring the equipment is safely taken out of service!) or whether a court will later find one liable for negligent bodily harm .

Regarding the aforementioned topic, the GTI adheres to the manufacturer's maintenance guidelines, which do not specify a wheel alignment check. Therefore, it is on the safe side in this regard and technically does not require a customer signature. However, it's still a good idea to have it, because people tend to become extremely forgetful when the time comes...

Best regards from Munich!

"The failure to install the necessary new water pump could lead to a complete engine failure in a short period, because the restored correct belt tension could cause the old water pump to seize." This should provide protection against claims for damages.
I simply reject the idea of not installing it from the outset. I want to share my experience with a near-engine failure on a T4 AAB, which broke down a week after a timing belt replacement. The water pump impeller was tilting sideways by half a centimeter, even though it was running quietly and appeared normal during the repair!

DieselBär30x wrote:

Regarding the aforementioned topic, the GTI adheres to the manufacturer's maintenance regulations, which do not specify a wheel alignment check. Therefore, it is on the safe side in this regard and actually does not require a customer signature.

Ah, that's the point in this case. Thank you.

Please.

WHAT will a court-appointed, officially recognized, and sworn expert say about this, or WHAT will they absolutely rely on?
...ultimately and exclusively based on the manufacturer's (maintenance) instructions!!
Everything else (including experience and common sense) doesn't matter, because the court generally doesn't possess, nor is it supposed to possess, any specific expertise! (...and is blind... and deaf... and at sea... and in court...).

Best regards from Munich!

PS: Don't forget: "YOU are Germany!!"

Quote:

Regarding the aforementioned topic, the GTI adheres to the manufacturer's maintenance regulations, which do not specify a coolant change. Therefore, it is on the safe side in this regard and technically does not even require a customer signature. However, it is still a good idea, because when the time comes, people tend to be extremely forgetful...

Unfortunately, the company performing the work is responsible for its quality, regardless of what the manufacturer recommends. That is, at least, how the courts see it. Therefore, extreme caution is advised if you decide not to replace the water pump.

Okay, so it is. The same applies to parts brought in by the customer. Whoever installs them is liable. It doesn't matter whether anything related to this was noted on the invoice and signed by the customer, or not.

Steffen W wrote:

So it is, after all. The same applies to parts brought by the customer. Whoever installs them is liable. It doesn't matter whether something related to this was noted on the invoice and signed by the customer, or not.

Hmm, I'm not sure. I think that in this case, the workshop is liable for the proper execution of the work, and the customer is responsible for the parts supplied, because, in my opinion, a contract for the delivery of goods is not concluded, but rather a pure contract for work and services.

Errors and omissions excepted .

I have heard BM's opinion several times before. My workshop, which I trust the least, also handles it in the same way. On the work order, it is noted: "The following parts were delivered by the customer and are intended for use: ..."

Hi,
It would also be very strange, according to common sense, if product liability were to shift to the installer when parts are provided.
But regarding the survey:
- So far, I have only used ZR (Zündrelais - ignition relay) components from VAG (Volkswagen Group).
- No issues with TD ZR.
- Individual issues with TDI ZR: protruding fine wires on the teeth (once on a new part, which was replaced without issue), once the formation of a transverse gap on a tooth; individual formation of point-like deposits from wear on the back and on the rollers.
- In the vast majority of cases, the manufacturer was Gates.
- Tensioner: One seized on a Passat TD, one difficult to turn in the bearing (Canadian manufacturer) on a TDI.
hg
Herbert.