Ladedruck serie ARL? | Posts 16+

slg60 wrote:

but there's also a measurement block in VAG-Com that measures torque, and I get my 410 Nm displayed when I press the accelerator! However, I'm curious how VAG-Com measures it!

As mullemaus already hinted: this is the calculated "internal" engine torque based on the theoretical fuel injection amount, before accounting for the engine's frictional losses. Therefore, this full-throttle value is always higher than the standard, published performance figures for the engine.

410 Nm of torque seems unusually high compared to the standard 320 Nm -> it looks like a tuningattempt to me...

Well, I suspect he's definitely been chipped, because he's already accelerating really well and leaves a cloud of smoke behind, making it hard to see the rear lights even in the dark, which suggests tuning. I'll probably have to take him for a dyno test. Something just feels off. Is there no other value that could be increased to get more power out of him?
According to the dynamometer test, the vehicle supposedly had 160 horsepower, so there's some variation upwards, which isn't unusual for turbocharged engines.

slg60 wrote:

Well, so I suspect that he definitely has a chip installed, because he drives really well and leaves a cloud of smoke behind, making it hard to see the rear lights in the dark, which also speaks for tuning.

"Drives really well" is not a measurable metric for engine power, and the ARL is already quite lively in its stock configuration. The log data, however, suggests a poorly executed and unprofessional tuning job.
While excessive soot is also typical of poor-quality tuning software (which doesn't necessarily mean a significant increase in performance!), it can also be caused by hardware defects (e.g., a leak in the charge air system, a blocked EGR valve -> use the search function).

Quote:

Is there perhaps another value that could be increased to achieve more power output?

For ordinary drivers, there's only one adjustable parameter: the expertise of the chosen tuner.

hello,

It's definitely been modified, but not in a great way.
As long as he's using the original PDE injectors, the injection angle is the key factor that definitively determines the injection quantity. Therefore, in your case, 27.5° is being injected instead of 26.1°. Accordingly, one can estimate the excess fuel and, consequently, the increase in power.

There's another way to achieve a significantly higher injection volume with this small multi-injection angle: use larger pre-injection durations (PDEs)!

However, this is only done with IDR (presumably referring to a specific process or technology) when the software has exhausted all the limits of the underlying hardware.
And 0.05 bar more pressure is definitely not enough.

If you want to check your performance at a low cost, search for 'air velocity meter'.
That's a pretty good approximation of your actual performance.

Best regards, Jochen.

P.S.: If you want to know exactly what changes have been made to your software, we would need to take a look at it *g*.

Okay, so SLS Tuning isn't exactly a tuner that's unknown. They actually have a pretty good understanding of what they're doing. I'm not sure about their diesel tuning expertise, but I know they're good with gasoline engines. Anyway, I'm taking my car to them this week, and then I'll know more!

ulf wrote:

slg60 wrote: Well, I suspect that it's definitely chipped, because it drives really well and leaves a cloud of smoke behind, making it hard to see the rear lights in the dark, which speaks to tuning. "Drives really well" is not a measurable metric for engine performance, and the ARL is already quite lively in its stock configuration. The log data, however, suggests a poorly executed tuning job. While a lot of black soot is also typical for poor-quality tuning software (which doesn't necessarily mean a significant increase in performance!), it can also be caused by hardware defects (e.g., a leak in the charge air system, a blocked EGR valve -> use the search function). Quote: Is there another value that could be increased to get more power output? For normal drivers, there's only one adjustable parameter: the expertise of the chosen tuner.

Okay, I used to drive a 2.9 VR6, so for me, the fact that this one accelerates really well is a significant improvement!

slg60 wrote:

ulf wrote: slg60 wrote: Well, I suspect that it's definitely chipped, because it drives really well and leaves a cloud of smoke behind, making it hard to see the rear lights in the dark, which speaks to tuning. "Drives really well" is not a measurable metric for engine performance, and the ARL is already quite lively in its stock configuration. The log data, however, suggests a poorly executed tuning job. While a lot of black soot is also typical for poor-quality tuning software (which doesn't necessarily mean a significant increase in performance!), it can also be caused by hardware defects (e.g., a leak in the charge air system, a blocked EGR valve -> use the search function). Quote: Is there another value that could be increased to get more power output? For normal drivers, there's only one adjustable parameter: the expertise of the chosen tuner. So, I used to drive a 2.9 VR6, so for me, the value that describes how well it accelerates is a benchmark!

Hello.
That's a really bad standard to use, you can't compare things like that.
Tuner test benches are often not very impressive.
Best regards,
Dirk

I know that's why the previous owner also had it checked on an independent dynamometer at Bosch afterwards! It showed 4 horsepower less, which I think is okay!

So, I used to drive a 2.9 VR6.

Sorry, but I've also driven a 2.9 VR6 engine in a Golf. The torque of that engine is quite low, especially at the bottom end. Therefore, my Seat feels, subjectively, like it performs better at the bottom end than the 2.9 .
A well-performing 150hp engine can be just as good as its competitors in the low-end power range.

The boost pressure and the LD (lambda value) are clearly defined: you simply can't achieve 190 horsepower with those settings.
Try running a MWB 003-008-011 log. You'll be able to see how much fuel should be injected and how it's being limited.
The effort required to modify the injection angles in the dataset to hide the tuning will likely not be undertaken by any tuner who wants to make money from the software.

It wouldn't be the first tuner attempting to tune the PD using the VP principle.
Unfortunately, the desired quantity is not available.

Best regards,

Sure, the engines can't be compared based on their torque curves, but I still know what 190 horsepower feels like. I'll let you know when I've been on the dyno.

With a feed angle of 27.x°, you can save yourself the test stand, because I can tell you what the result will be .

If the output is anything other than approximately 160-165 horsepower, you can use this document as toilet paper.

Best regards, Rainer.

Okay, so I took it to the repair shop, not just any shop, but Bosch Service, and the result is:
138.9 kW at 3900 RPM and 420.7 Nm at 2440 RPM.

So, either my VAG Com is malfunctioning, or I'm doing something wrong, or... well, I have no idea.
I also have an eBay OBD adapter and a VAG COM 311, or something like that, but it probably shouldn't make a difference, right?

slg60 wrote:

So, I took it to a service center, not just anywhere, but to Bosch Service, and the result is: 138.9 kW at 3900 RPM and 420.7 Nm at 2440 RPM.

While even at Bosch, one cannot be completely safe from utopian "smiling" results from dynamometers, it would gradually become more interesting to read out your MSG file.
As I mentioned before: if the duration of the subsidy is correct, such performance levels are impossible without hardware modifications.

If the roll data is correct, then...
a) The tuner has artificially lowered the data related to the injection duration, which would be an extremely rare occurrence.
b) Your engine uses larger PDEs (presumably referring to pressure drop elements or similar components). In order for these components to function correctly, the software would need to be modified "significantly differently" compared to standard chip tuning.

Okay, so I think Bosch already knows what they're doing. I've been there with quite a few vehicles, and everything always turned out exactly as I expected. Plus, I was there with a friend, and he had his standard Golf tested shortly after me, and the results were the same. I don't know what was done, but it's somehow mysterious. I mean, according to the tuner's diagram, the standard Golf already had around 165 horsepower, but something else must have been done for the rest, right?

Can only a chip tuner read out my engine control unit (ECU) file, or how do I do it? It certainly doesn't work with VAG-COM!

but gradually, it became increasingly interesting to read your MSG file.
As I already mentioned: if the duration of the support is correct, such performance is impossible without hardware modifications.

Hello,
I agree. Where are you from? Do you have the option to have your file read out?


If the roll data are correct, then it should be the case that...
a) The tuner has artificially lowered the data related to the injection duration, which would be an extremely rare occurrence.

I believe this is not possible for tuning with a certification. You can get the SLS chip registered, so why would someone go through the trouble of manipulating the diagnostic data if everything could be legal?
b) Your engine has larger PDEs (Pressure Drop Elements) installed. In order for these components to function properly, the software would need to be modified 'significantly differently' than in a standard chip tuning scenario.

And that with a lifting condensation level of 2550 hPa? IMA excluded.

But,
I took a quick look at the SLS website.
There is no tuning offered for an ALR to achieve 190 horsepower .
However, you can get 178PS and 370Nm for your engine. Even with TÜV parts approval.

This also aligns well with the performance data that we predicted.
I've taken another, closer look at the log.
'I found the injection timing angles in the standard file! It's only above 3000 rpm that the injection duration is approximately (exactly) 5% longer than in the standard configuration. And even after adjusting the injection timing angles, they haven't touched the fuel injection quantity settings.'
If one were to try to increase the flow rate to 60mg/h, the standard flow angle would already be higher than what your tuning achieves .

According to the tuner's diagram, the Golf series already had close to 165 horsepower, but something must have been done for the rest, right?

AFAIK, ALR (presumably referring to a specific product or technology) tends to scatter light downwards rather than upwards.
Therefore, it's unlikely that you'll be able to measure 165 horsepower in the standard version if everything is done correctly.
If I calculate the additional power of approximately 18% (178 hp compared to 150 hp) specified by SLS based on the baseline measurement of 165 hp, I get 194.7 hp .

And so the circle is complete, and everything fits together again.
Boost angle, boost pressure, and increased power. At least, that's what the tuner claims and would like to achieve.
Unfortunately, this feature is not available in IMA.

The test stand results alone are impressive enough to brag about in both cases.

Regarding the Bosch testing platform:
If anything other than approximately 160-165 horsepower comes out, you can use this document as toilet paper.
expensive toilet paper...

Best regards, Jochen.