Zweimassenschwungrad?! | Posts 16+

I knew it! It would have been too good to be true...

Okay, that's all, folks, from KlausiMaus! *laugh*
Okay, seriously: To the best of my (non-final!!!) knowledge, there's only one option available for my rare combination, and that's from LUK (no, nothing from Sachs (ZF)!). And it's not even available in a reinforced version or anything *sigh*.
That's why I became so "sharp" when I read on BaguetteBosch's page about the "kit" that supposedly works for ALL 1.9 TDI (??!) and 1.8 engines from the Volkswagen group...

Even though you've already, in a way (sometimes *g*), denied me the nickname: Could you possibly check with your sales representative again to see if they have something *exactly* like this (um... something that definitely fits, please *fg*) for my vehicle?

I can gladly fax, email, or send you the vehicle registration document if that would be helpful.

Once again, a huge thank you in advance .

You could have someone look up the VAG OE number for your car model to see whether the 228 Sachs or the 230 LUK clutch was installed.
Edit: According to Tec Doc, there are 2 options.
Both are also suitable for T5 engines with 102-105 horsepower, which should still leave some headroom!
I'll call again on Friday to check if the Sachs part is available then.
Am I understanding correctly that you're talking about EMS, or are you referring to your 2MS?

No, I don't want to know anything more about that (damn!) CMS!!!

"Any reasonable person would only install an EMS (Engine Management System) in a commercial vehicle."
Okay, by "average person," I mean the practitioners who haven't gone to university *ggg*.

Okay, I'll find out the part number, but it might take a little while.

Despite everything, thank you again very much for your information!!!

Does anyone have any other tips or advice regarding using a G60/VR6 engine management system (EMS) with a 228 clutch on an ASV engine?

Hello, I have the email address for Valeo so I can inquire about which flywheel and clutch kit is compatible.

(VS-Ratingen-Hotline (at) Valeo.com) Mr. Hackmann.

Please send detailed information in advance, including all part numbers (MKB/GKB), serial number, rated power and actual power consumption, a description of the problem, and your intended solution.
Then, call back a day later to address any remaining uncertainties or to clarify any questions.

Everything is clear, thank you...

Any other advice regarding EMS?

trebor wrote:

Does anyone else have any tips or advice regarding the G60/VR6 EMS with a 228 clutch on an ASV?

Hi,

What kind of tips would you like to have?
I have a 1Z flywheel with an original 1Z clutch connected to an AHF gearbox .
The clutch is subjected to a maximum load of 250 Nm by the engine (optimized 1Z), but it also needs to be able to handle a maximum towing weight of 5000 kg.
The friction disc has lasted for about 100,000 kilometers, but it's now nearing the end of its lifespan.
At Sachs racing, you can get clutch kits that are supposed to be more durable. I wouldn't want to install them in my own vehicle because I need perfect control and precise engagement, not a clutch that feels almost digital.

Regards,
Jens.

@jens16syncro

You have a private message!

@ all

Would the transmission be able to handle the switch from a dual-mass flywheel (ZMS) to a single-mass flywheel (EMS)?
Someone once told me that the input shaft bearing in gearboxes originally designed for a dual-mass flywheel (DMF) is less stable than in gearboxes originally designed for a single-mass flywheel (SMF).

In practice, I personally haven't experienced any issues with the transmission's durability, even with significantly more torque.

trebor wrote:

@jens16syncro You have a private message!

I'll answer that publicly:

I have a TDI engine swap in my T3 Syncro (VW Bus), using an AFN engine.
The engine was not tuned, so it only produced 235 Nm of torque.
Originally, I installed the original ZMS.
The ZMS (presumably a dual-mass flywheel) failed after a relatively short period, which was noticeable through strong vibrations, rocking during startup, and jerky clutch engagement.
After removing the ZMS (presumably a component), it became apparent that the suspension system had begun to disassemble itself.
Almost simultaneously, the same thing happened to a friend's car; his clutch master cylinder even seized, meaning that an internal spring break caused it to lock up. Removing it could only be done with a cutting tool (angle grinder), as the mounting screws were hidden.

I then switched to EMS from 1Z, and the clutch is also a standard 1Z model.
Since then (approximately 140,000 km), everything has been working perfectly without any defects, except that the friction disc is nearing its wear limit. I have not noticed any loss of comfort or excessive gearbox wear, beyond what is normally expected with TDI conversions.

The transmission in the VW T3 Syncro is specified by VW up to a maximum of 200 Nm, meaning it operates under constant overload. The transmission input shaft is extremely long and also two-piece, as it passes through the differential housing, which is located between the engine flange and the gearbox (Beetle technology). This long and relatively thin shaft has, to my knowledge, never failed; when failures occur, they are usually due to synchronizers, gears, or bearings.
The wave can dampen vibrations caused by micro-torsion due to its extremely long construction. A short and thick wave in a front-wheel-drive vehicle cannot achieve the same effect.
I don't think anyone knows for sure whether that will actually achieve anything .

"I don't believe that a dual-mass flywheel (DMF) actually protects the transmission in a VEP-TDI engine; rather, it primarily provides a more comfortable driving experience. And if you completely mess up the vehicle-engine-transmission system, using a DMF in such an undocumented system that wasn't designed for it seems very illogical. In that case, it's better to use the 'proven' EMS (Engine Management System), which is less sensitive to system changes."

There are also quite a few T3 drivers who still use an AFN with a dual-mass flywheel (ZMS), and some have been doing so for years. So, it can certainly work. However, especially Syncro owners are often plagued by ZMS failures, particularly if they have used their vehicle off-road. Many have switched back to a single-mass flywheel (EMS).

Regards,
Jens.

Thank you for the information.

Okay, I'm going to change my shock absorbers first, and then I'll think about my clutch conversion (Valeo kit or maybe a G60/VR6/1Z EMS with a clutch disc from a T4 Synchro and a VR6 pressure plate).

Jens 16syncro wrote:

Almost simultaneously, the same thing happened to a friend; his ZMS even seized completely, meaning that an internal spring break caused it to lock up. Removal was only possible using a cutting tool (Flex), as the mounting screws were hidden.

Okay, it was quite a pain to get that thing out.

However, we found no lubricants either in the remaining parts of the ZMS (torque converter) or in the bell housing. Therefore, the damaged ZMS was likely running without lubrication, which, to my knowledge, should not be the case, and may have been the reason for the defect.

"I installed a new dual-mass flywheel (DMF) from a Sharan back then (the original was from a Golf), and I haven't had any problems since. That was about 100,000 km ago."

My Syncro weighs approximately 2300-2500 kg, but it's not used as extensively as Jens's.

Greetings,
dieter

Hi Klaus! ...I'm not allowed to use nicknames anymore .

teileklaus wrote:

You could have someone look up the VAG OE number for your car to see if the 228 Sachs or the 230 LUK clutch was installed. Edit: According to Tec Doc, there are 2 options. Both are also suitable for T5 engines with 102-105 horsepower, which should still leave some headroom! I'll call again on Friday to check if the Sachs part is available then. Do I understand correctly that you're talking about EMS, or are you referring to your 2MS?

Okay, I've now looked up the part number for the dual-mass flywheel (DMF) for my AXC.
03G 105 266 AB
What was actually installed, I have no idea, but it seems everything is still original from the factory.

Thank you so much again for checking!

Greetings from Munich!

To all potential Valeo customers,
through constantly new requests:
According to VALEO's information today, the 228 mm EMS kit does not "roughly" fit with central release coupling systems.
A 240 mm model with a single-mass flywheel is currently in development (No, it is not available for purchase, and there is no estimated release date).
Furthermore (and speaking in confidence), a more powerful version is currently in development.
Can I wait to ask about Valeo, or could it potentially be later, maybe even towards the end of next year?

Okay, so either wait for the 240mm brake discs and a power upgrade, or consider using Sachs Racing sintered brake pads.

So, brought up again...

Has anyone had a chance to gain experience with the Valeo retrofit kit yet?