Seat fordert WIV-Öl bei Festintervallmotor: warum? | Posts 32+

I'm more interested in understanding where the problem lies in adhering to the specified oil standard. The price probably isn't the issue, especially when you see the prices of Mobil 1 Longlife 3 oil on eBay, for example.

Manufacturers certainly don't just randomly decide when they define a standard.
Furthermore, a newer standard will generally become better than an older one when requirements increase, and the cost is more likely to be borne by the customer than by the manufacturer.

I don't see the point of this discussion. There are no issues that can be attributed to the 5W-30 LL3 oil.

If someone is bothered by the LL (long-life) interval, they can still change the oil after 15,000 km.

I won't do it, and so far it hasn't caused any problems with the engine. (over 200,000 km)

Bertil wrote:

The connecting rod bearings for the ARL and the BPX/BUK engines are different. They are even from different manufacturers! Although the ARL has the same ones listed in the parts catalog, those are the newer ones.

... the ones that were installed in the BPX/BUK engines from the beginning of production, and which are better than the older ARL parts? Then, the BPX and BUK engines should be less critical regarding oil specifications, but I probably see that as too simplistic now.

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The recommended bearing clearance for the connecting rod/piston is also different for the BPX/BUK models. So, the blocks are anything but the same...

... even though they have the same engine block part numbers...
Is the bearing clearance not properly adjusted in a sleeved cylinder engine?

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Accept what the manufacturer specifies; it has a purpose.

A comprehensible understanding would greatly facilitate things for me.

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I'm more interested in understanding where the problem lies in adhering to the specified oil standard. The price probably isn't the issue, especially when I see the prices at **** for a Mobil1 Longlife 3 oil.

1. I don't buy from IhBäh, among other reasons, because I want a real contact person locally in case of a complaint, rather than anonymous online retailers.

"My mind rebels against the idea of using a xW30 grade oil in a diesel engine with such a high fuel consumption. The rear section of the LM TT4100 seems much more robust to me."

ulf wrote:

2. My head rebels against the idea of using an xW30 lubricant in a diesel engine with such high fuel consumption. The rear 40% of the LM TT4100 seems much more robust.

Okay, I'll let that one slide, but there are also other reputable sellers who offer similar prices.

"However, secondly, please explain this, while also keeping in mind the 1.4 TSI with 170 hp, which uses the same 30 oil and runs perfectly without any issues, with completely different internal engine temperatures. Also, the 2.0 TFSI, which runs in the TT-S with 270 hp and, as far as I know, uses the same oil and also runs without problems."

ulf wrote:

. . . which were installed from the beginning of production in BPX/BUK models, and which are better than the older ARL parts? Then, BPX and BUK models should be less critical regarding oil specifications, but I'm probably oversimplifying things again .

Or, quite the opposite... The new storage quality requires the new oil quality for a longer lifespan. When replacing older models, one has to deal with the "loss" .
For more precise information, you'll have to ask the manufacturer yourself. However, you've caught them "with their pants down," so they're likely to tell you a fairy tale...

See also the post by christians.
Even though that's phrased in an exaggerated way, it could be a scenario that might have happened. The poor ARL drivers "burned through" their block much earlier than the BUK. They simply reacted to something, but left the "old" blocks untouched to avoid causing "customer outrage."

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. . . despite having the same engine code numbers . . . Is the bearing clearance not properly adjusted in a sleeved cylinder engine?

However... A hull motor is properly configured. But only the newer version is available now. This is perfectly normal. See above (+ post from christians).

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A clear understanding would greatly facilitate things for me.

Then it would be extremely important to work in the automotive industry (and especially in the service area) for 5-10 years, so that you can also understand the processes that take place behind the scenes.
I cannot and do not want to provide that here . That has been my source of income for quite some time now...

Benni wrote:

I'll let that one slide regarding IhBäh, but there are other reputable dealers who offer similar prices.

Examples (preferably via private message)?

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but secondly, please explain this, while also keeping in mind a 1.4 TSI with 170 hp, which uses the same 30 oil and runs perfectly smoothly and very quietly... with completely different internal engine temperatures. Also, the 2.0 TFSI, which runs in the TT-S with 270 hp and, in my opinion, gets the same oil and also runs perfectly smoothly.

In short: the second number indicates the hot viscosity. And a 40 oil is inherently thicker and forms a more stable oil cushion than a 30 oil, which has to work even harder with additives to keep up with a 40.

The gasoline-powered vehicles you mentioned haven't been in customer testing for long enough for me to provide the general public, who are not industry insiders, with well-established practical experience (based on a broad range of media sources).

I specifically mentioned gasoline engines because, in those engines, the issue of hot viscosity is more prevalent, and it's precisely in those engines that it doesn't pose a problem.

The older 1.8T engines are also approved for the specified LL3 oil, and I haven't experienced any problems with them either.

Are you aware of any problems caused by LL3 oils, and can you support your skepticism with practical examples?

I've also read about many speculations, including issues with worn camshafts, but all of these damages couldn't be traced back to the LL3 oil, and they also occur with other types of oil (2.5 TDI V6) and are therefore likely due to design flaws.

UPDATE:
rinse briefly with this.
http://www.oelwelt24.de/catalog/Motoroel+1L+-+Mobil+1+ESP+Formula+5W30

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English, including a complete legal notice:

**German:**

mit kompletten impressum etc..

**English:**

with complete legal notice, including all required information.

Somewhere, I had another supplier that offered it for around 7.50 per liter. Personally, I check on eBay, and I'm aware of the risks, or I buy from reputable dealers. So far, my engine seems to be doing okay.

Benni wrote:

.... Are you aware of any problems caused by LL3 oils, and can you support your skepticism with practical examples? ...

He definitely can't!

Ulf likes to "theorize" ("... I've heard it in forums...") and suffers from paranoid anxiety about anything that seems unfamiliar to him ....
He also attempts to prove the manufacturer's notorious incompetence or lack of knowledge.

Greetings from someone who uses 50700 as a fixed-interval oil... because it's simply the cheapest option available.

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In short: The higher number indicates the viscosity at high temperatures. And a 40-grade oil is inherently thicker and forms a more stable oil cushion than a 30-grade oil, which, in turn, needs to rely more on additives to keep up with a 40-grade oil.

... Or, due to excessive viscosity, it may not be effectively forced into the narrow bearing clearances, leading to insufficient lubrication...

Have fun choosing the correct theory .
I am familiar with both cases.

Benni wrote:

Are you aware of any problems caused by LL3 oils, and can you support your skepticism with practical examples? I have also read about many speculations, including worn camshafts, but all the damages could not be traced back to LL3 oil, or they also occur with non-LL oils (2.5 TDI V6) and are therefore design-related.

The camshaft issues are mainly what I'm concerned about.

Bertil wrote:

Ulf likes to "theorize" ("... I've heard it in forums...") and suffers from paranoid anxiety about anything that seems unfamiliar to him .... He also attempts to prove the manufacturer's notorious incompetence or lack of knowledge.

Ich kenne und schätze Ulf schon n Weilchen aud dem Netz (als ehem. Fabia drivers).
I actually don't want to take this to a personal level. I think it's okay to critically question things, and he and others are often right, as various updates and design changes demonstrate.

You just have to support theories with examples.

Or, in this specific case, verify the "strange" cold start issue even with the correct oil. Because this is the non-original factor.

Ultimately, I don't believe that VW (and other major manufacturers) would risk their entire vehicle fleet (including older vehicles) with a substandard oil standard, because if that could be proven, it could lead to economic ruin due to the damage to their reputation.

Edit: Yes, Ulf, I suspected as much. Do you have any comparison data for LL (Large Language Model) versus non-LL models?

The markings you showed me on your Polo are likely to be found on most other models as well (excluding the 2.5-liter engine).
And the NW issues that became known through the PDs seem to have only affected a specific batch, at least things have been suspiciously quiet about it again... and we also haven't heard anything about it from the early days of the PDs.

"I'll need to replace the valve cover gasket on my engine soon because it's leaking a little oil. At the same time, I'll take a look (and take some pictures) at the turbocharger. This is an engine that's been run for a long time, and the maintenance intervals have been extended significantly due to the driving conditions (sometimes up to 45,000 km, but now less due to changes in the driving profile). I'm curious to see how it's holding up, but I don't see any immediate need for action... maybe in the spring."
And those 200,000 km should also provide some indication.

Benni wrote:

... Ich kenne und schätze Ulf schon n Weilchen aud dem Netz (als ehem. Fabia drivers).

I've known Ulf since the old DS forum (around 1999-2000) and I highly value him.

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... I think it's okay to critically question things...

... which is fine to a certain extent, but even here... Just accept that the manufacturer doesn't want to reveal all the details or specifications.
Ulf will eventually have to accept that (which he still hasn't done so far).

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... and it's certainly true that he and others are often right, as various updates and design changes demonstrate.

Absolutely correct... But sometimes, enough is enough.
And his insinuations, or (often very one-sided or false) assumptions, are almost bordering on defamation.


Just a thought about the delicate balancing act Ulf is performing here (fictional story):

After 7 years, a manufacturer discovered that certain engine designs exhibited increased wear and tear due to the use of unsuitable oils and a poorly matched combination of components. This affected engines that were well beyond their warranty period. Consequently, various modifications were implemented for a new series of similar engines, including a change in oil quality. Durability tests indicate a potential increase in lifespan of 200%.
A group of American car enthusiasts hear about this and notice that the new technology makes their engines last four times longer. They sue the manufacturer for damages. Well, and according to American law, the manufacturer has to pay and may even have to fix the "hypothetical damage." That's just how liability regulations work in other countries.
I don't want to be the one who ends up visiting Ulf behind "Swedish curtains." Because, in the reverse scenario, the manufacturer might even be able to hold the "cause" harmless.

One must not lose sight of the bigger picture when considering such thoughts.
Unfortunately, Ulf is having significant problems with this. That's just the way it is... But you simply have to accept it. He has already been told in those and other threads that he is willing to accept it as long as the manufacturer takes a clear and unambiguous position on the matter.
Dann noch weiter bohren ist wirklich Paranoid ... Sorry.


And precisely, fleet wear and tear data is one of the best-kept secrets in the automotive industry. However, Ulf always wants to focus on this area. Nothing will change until this data is made public. Therefore, he simply needs to understand that there's nothing he can obtain in this regard!

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Or, in this specific case, verify the "strange" cold start issue, even with the correct oil. Because this is the non-original factor.

Not for Ulf ...
He doesn't want to believe that there's a factor that doesn't meet the manufacturer's specifications.

Bertil wrote:

Just accept that the manufacturer doesn't want to release or allow the release of the pants. Ulf will eventually have to accept that (which he still hasn't done so far). Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. And his insinuations, or (often very one-sided or false) assumptions, are almost bordering on defamation. Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. He has already been told in those and other threads that he is willing to accept it as long as the manufacturer takes a clear and unambiguous position on the matter. Dann noch weiter bohren ist wirklich Paranoid ... Sorry. Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. And especially fleet wear data are one of the best-kept secrets in the automotive industry. However, Ulf always wants to focus on this. This won't work as long as this data is not made public. Therefore, he simply needs to understand that there is nothing he can obtain in this area!

In general, many things can be clarified through reflection and deduction by applying basic physics, especially when the OEM remains silent.
Unfortunately, the technical processes behind my current problems are probably too complex to achieve plausible and reliable results through this method .

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The wear patterns that you showed on your Polo, you will likely find on every NW.

(Let's leave the 2.5-liter engine aside for now). }Yes, the NW of my BUK looks very similar after about half of its mileage - of which ~10% was with my "wrong" oil.
I obviously don't know what happened to it during the first 23,000 kilometers.

Hi, I think we should wrap up this discussion by reiterating the recommendation for an oil change and then continue the conversation on a different level.

ulf wrote:

Generally, many things can be clarified through reflection and deduction by applying basic physics, especially when the OEM remains silent. Unfortunately, the technical processes behind my current problems are probably too complex to achieve plausible and reliable results through this method .

That's right.
At least until you can approach the problem from the other side (i.e., by observing multiple instances of the same issue in a fleet test).

Hello everyone!

teileklaus wrote:

Hi, I think we should end this discussion here by reiterating the recommendation for an oil change and continue the conversation on a different level.

...in that case, I completely agree with KlausiMausi's opinion.

Because, at the very latest when the Goettmann wakes up from its winter sleep, there will be smoke on the lawn again .

Best regards from Munich!

The exception proves the rule.
Ravenol has offered a new 505.01 oil suitable for DPF systems since October 2009, specifically the Speci 5w-40.
http://www.ravenol-shop.de/epages/61107442.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61107442/Products/111133/SubProducts/111133-5L

Fuchs Öl is also discontinuing its 5W-30 oil that meets the 505.01 specification.

They now also have a new C3 oil for DPF in a 5W-40 viscosity.
Fuchs TITAN GT1 SAE 5W-40.

It's strange because Volkswagen specifies 5W-30 for new oil approvals.
Some engines still probably require this 5W-40 .
Why are these new products being placed in category 505.01?