Hi Tec Auto, Low Tec Werkstatt? | Posts 32+

If the development engineers and decision-makers had the same attitude, the great 1Z (and AFN and TD) would never have made it to the market. We would all drive gasoline cars or 200Ds!
He, at least, broke down less often.

Best regards.

Hi Gaspedaluser,

It's not entirely meant seriously . I'm the last person who would be against technological progress... but the headlines from VW just keep coming (frozen oil lines, timing belt failures, etc., etc., etc.). On the contrary, it's getting worse .

I simply can't accept that you have to spend five-figure Euro amounts on any piece of junk . A Mercedes is much better and not that much more expensive . If a car is so incredibly expensive, then I also expect it to last at least as long as the older models . And the quality management at VW shows that they apparently don't care... but hopefully not for much longer, because the economic crisis has now also hit VW!

Best regards, Christian.

joergs wrote:

but I'd rather be in the club of those who are behind than in the club of those who have to walk, because the car mechanic can't get the car running again!!!!!

... now you also understand why I have a Jetta 1 GLI in the garage!
Guaranteed electronics-free zone - not even a car radio is allowed.

haehnlein wrote:

Yippie, the 1Z is, together with the AFN and TD, the best thing they ever built.

Well, at least it's the best compromise between robustness and performance.
If it needs to be really robust, it has to be from the 37kW class (200D or G1 D). Only making progress is also an art.

gaspedaluser wrote:

If the development engineers and decision-makers had the same attitude, the great 1Z (and AFN and TD) would never have made it to the market. We would all drive gasoline cars or 200Ds! It at least broke down less often

.
That would probably have been better for my nerves.


Okay, let's be fair now! We shouldn't be *that* unfair. I don't have any problems with the high-tech components in my car, but I do have a problem with a very basic, low-tech issue – a leak!
That could even happen with a supposedly robust 200D.

Okay, let's be fair now! We shouldn't be *that* unfair. I don't have any problems with the high-tech components in my car, but I do have a problem with a very basic, low-tech issue – a leak!
That could even happen with a supposedly robust 200D.

COULD...

'It doesn't work... it's so low-tech, it's from a time when engineers learned from working on physical models and were whipped by their bosses if they made mistakes.'

'It's quite amusing how hysterical modern computer specialists get when they actually have to use a ratchet. But I suppose it's also difficult to use something without a battery and manual left/right switching without a mouse.'
and then, an elderly housewife comes along and explains to them how to design sensible enclosures

But to be more serious: there's some truth to that. The experienced veterans are passing away, and the younger generation is so focused on computers and simulations... they simply lack long-term experience, and (MY EXPERIENCE!) they don't even want to gain more.

CU Gremlin.

Gremlin wrote:

but on a more serious note: there's some truth to that. The experienced "old timers" are passing away, and the younger generation is so focused on computers and simulations... they simply lack long-term experience, and (MY EXPERIENCE!) they don't even want to gain more...

Hi Gremlin,

Absolutely! The old "eggheads" still exist... but most of them are no longer in Germany .

The first problem is that there is no more money available for research (the Americans invest much more here) .

The second problem was and still is the 1968 movement. Since then, natural sciences have been looked down upon in Germany . As a tutor in math, physics, and chemistry, I can attest to this . How can a society that will soon consist mostly of lawyers, dentists, business students, Renate Künasts, and so on, build a motor that is advanced and doesn't fall apart ?

Best regards, Christian.

It's actually quite normal for more things to break on cars.

More and more technology is being integrated, because that's what we, the customers, want. And everything should remain the same price, or even become cheaper, because that's what we, the customers, want.
So, we have to save on materials and, above all, time. Of course, things also break down more often. The systems also become more sensitive because they often have to do more. For example, where you used to be able to run on unfiltered heating oil, today it has to be very clean, sulfur-free diesel. I know, for example, that the filtration performance of the diesel is not yet sufficient for some common rail systems, but there is currently no better way to achieve it. So, we have to live with compromises.

But be honest, how many metal sheets have you actually welded into your car? How often do you replace the battery, exhaust, or joints in a car's lifetime? These things used to be done more often!
Isn't it also true that we are becoming increasingly spoiled? Ask older people how often they used to work on their cars on Saturdays because something like a connection or some other part was broken.

Furthermore, it's true that dissatisfied people tend to complain more than satisfied people praise a product.

I've already had a number of unexpected problems with my 'newly' acquired Passat Variant from 1996, with an AFN engine and 160,000 km on the clock, and I've already spent over 900 euros on parts alone. However, I'm still satisfied with it, even though my previous BMW (328 Touring, 1996, 130,000 km) never gave me any problems. But cars are machines, and they wear out.



ixery,
He just wanted to chime in and share his opinion, and he believes that cars are getting better and that he's in favor of technological advancements.

@ixery

You're certainly right when you say that, ultimately, the customer decides what goes into the basket, and then savings have to be found elsewhere!
However, we're talking about new cars priced above the €15,000-€20,000 range. Don't you think that after perhaps 20,000 kilometers, these kinds of issues shouldn't be happening? Furthermore, I believe that the price VW charges its customers for new vehicles is simply too high for the quality they are delivering. It's undeniable that VW builds/has built good cars. And personally, I don't want all the fancy features that come standard on a new VW! But I still have to pay for that 'fancy stuff' because some customers value it, and those in charge see the need to include it as standard equipment!

joergs wrote:

I don't want or need all the extra features that come on a new VW!

However, I still have to pay for that "extra stuff" because some customers value it, and those in charge see the necessity of including it as standard equipment!

Hi Jörg,

You're speaking my mind.

Only it's not a few :twisted:customers, but the majority who demand a full equipment package from the factory "without extra charge."
While car manufacturers are certainly also making money from the "free" equipment - at the latest after the next price increase .

I suspect that the desire for complete equipment was ultimately orchestrated by the car manufacturers themselves, in order to increase their sales.

The "independent" specialist press relies, among other things, on advertising contracts and is therefore susceptible to influence through this means.
And then, editors are essentially encouraged to enthusiastically welcome every new gimmick and to criticize the lagging competition that "still doesn't" have such features.

"The informed car buyer" eagerly embraces such nonsense, instead of considering the money they're spending on it (or the production cost savings elsewhere that make their car less solid) and the potential hassle and costs if the fancy features malfunction and need to be repaired.

But first, having, having, having and being able to show it off .

Hello everyone,

What are you all getting so worked up about? I started in 1972 with...
Driving and working on cars. At that time, I had no money.
I had to take what came my way. In this way, I've probably gone through about 25 cars in 30 years. Most of the time, they were for...
'Conditions at the time; old boxes (6 to 8 years old!).' And what?
'Everything broke down back then, but nowadays, it's a piece of cake.'
Lick! IMO, today's cars are actually quite...
Okay. Here's the translation:

'Especially when considering the performance and the...'
Check out the equipment!
Also: Tand, Tand is all man-made!
And finding a reliable workshop has always been a matter of luck, so...
I do everything myself - parts and tools are readily available these days.
Much more readily available than it was 30 years ago. What about the prices?
Regarding this, it is understandable given the income levels.
better. My TDI cars (Passat AFN and Golf AHF, both with automatic transmission and climate control, etc.) are really good.
Fun, and I'm going to enjoy driving them for a few more years!

Best regards,
Jürgen

@ulf

I actually meant that it's a small number of people who actually want it, and therefore, suddenly, everyone must have it .


@all
Certainly, the quality has improved significantly in recent years! This is undeniably true.
However, I know several acquaintances and colleagues who drive almost brand-new VWs. But all of them, without exception, have issues that cannot be dismissed as minor problems! And that's the unfortunate part: you pay a lot of money for something that's supposed to be in perfect condition, but it's not. Then, when you go to the workshop to complain about this or that problem for the tenth time, you're told 'that's just how it is.' 90% of the problems that arise could have been detected during a careful final inspection at the factory or, at the latest, during an inspection by the dealer before delivery! But apparently, they've eliminated final inspections for cost reasons and are leaving the task of finding the defects to the customer! That can't be right, can it?
And regarding the extras: why does the 'basic' equipment include, for example, air conditioning? I wouldn't necessarily need that. A sunroof or a pre-heater would be much more useful to me, but I can only get those as extras. It's also not possible to exchange the air conditioning for a sunroof. What's the point of a complete and expensive winter package if I only need heated windshield washer nozzles? I can get the same winter tires much cheaper at the tire shop down the street! These are just a few examples!
Of course, these are all subjective opinions. But that's just how I think! If someone has a different opinion, I respect that, and I hope that mine is also respected.
I certainly didn't intend to unleash a wave of outrage and hatred with this!
However, all these problems are not only typical of VW!!!

Third Act Update:

After repeatedly flushing the cooling system, I finally got my car back today. As far as I can tell, everything seems to be okay for now.
The coolant is now noticeably darker - it's definitely lilia now, whereas it was more orange before.

More reports will follow in the coming days. DZR time is 7.7 seconds, so it's the same as the original.

Hi Bertil,

Does oil in the water of a TDI engine always have to come from a blown head gasket or cracks in the engine block/cylinder head?

I just remembered the oil-water heat exchanger on the oil filter. At least AFN has something like that.
A leak between the two circles should, in my opinion, show the same effects...

The issue with the heat exchanger was more common in 1.6 Td models and gasoline engines of the same production year. Unfortunately, I don't know how things are with the newer engines.

ulf wrote:

I just remembered the oil-water heat exchanger on the oil filter. At least AFN has something like that. A leak between the two circles should, in my opinion, show the same effects...

Hi Ulf,

It seems there might be something to your assumption .

I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.

Apparently, depending on the pressure gradient, coolant can also leak into the oil.

Best regards, Christian.

ulf wrote:

Does oil in the water of a TDI engine always have to come from a blown head gasket or cracks in the engine block/cylinder head?

... so, combined with the exhaust smell coming from the coolant reservoir, I think so.

Quote:

I just remembered the oil-water heat exchanger located near the oil filter. At least AFN has something like that. A leak between the two circles should, in my opinion, show the same effects.

I'm familiar with that problem, but initially it was just the smell of exhaust fumes in the coolant, and then later oil in the coolant, so the heat exchanger probably isn't the cause.
However, when I heard how much "black sludge" (definitely not oil, according to the workshop) the workshop extracted from the cooling system, the heat exchanger seems more likely to be the culprit.

Hi Bertil,

The exhaust smell coming from the water doesn't necessarily match a leak that's "only" in the heat exchanger.

Did you actually have water in the oil? That might explain the strange noises the engine is making.

Or, do you definitely know what exactly the workshop did?