Leistung bricht bei 3800U/min ein Motor: ARL | Posts 48+

Hello,
Regarding the PDEs, it's certainly not possible to definitively say that they are the source of the performance loss. However, there's a possibility, and it's not as unlikely as it seems, that you could fix the differential yourself, as it can be relatively quickly disassembled and resealed. Personally, I would do it myself. I estimate that it will cost you at least €400 at a workshop.
I also experienced power loss with my ARL, but in a different RPM range. In my case, it was due to 4 leaky valves.
So, your car isn't producing smoke, but it has less power in the higher RPM range, and you're not reaching the maximum speed.
Before you proceed with anything else, I would suggest trying it without the catalytic converter (as a test) so that we can rule it out as the cause if there's no improvement.

Ulf once demonstrated that the factory settings for valve timing don't deliver optimal performance, which I completely agree with. However, the standard figures for acceleration and top speed are definitely achieved, but it feels less responsive. Otherwise, try implementing it as Ulf described in his article and then test it again.

In my opinion, the performance degradation of TDis over time is also due to the adaptive (self-learning) characteristic curves in the software.
My tuner initially replaced my software with a different version. After a few kilometers of test driving (without any tuning modifications), the car noticeably performed better than before. This was actually a mistake by my tuner; subsequently, a more recent software version was installed, and the tuning was performed. If you have the opportunity, have the software updated to the latest version by a tuner or VW dealership, or try a control unit from another ARL (if you have the possibility).
You'll be surprised how much this affects/changes the behavior of your engine.

Hello again,
According to the VW Elsa program, there is a technical problem (TPL) related to a gradual loss of power caused by a clogged filter in the air intake system. This filter was installed in Nordic countries and, mistakenly, also on the German market. Therefore, check if a filter is installed; if so, remove it.
TPL 207493/3

Hello,

@Nobi.K

I have already checked the air intake; there is no filter.

@Zak1976

Quote:

Ulf once demonstrated here that the factory settings for valve timing don't deliver optimal performance, which I completely agree with. However, the standard figures for acceleration and top speed are definitely achieved, but it feels less responsive. Otherwise, try adjusting it as Ulf described in a technical article, and then test it again.

Do you mean the technical article about valve timing?

@Ulf

Quote:

However, it would probably only be worthwhile if the color is positioned before the OT notch, meaning you would set the NW to a "earlier" setting than it is currently (see felix's answer).

Okay, so it looks something like this when you look through the viewing hole in the swing arm (I don't have a photo of the viewing hole right now, so I'll describe it with a "sketch"):

* -> White spot (marking?)
Approximately 3mm of space.
- -> Over-the-top (OT) marking applied.

Is the engine set to "early" if I use the white mark as the TDC (Top Dead Center) setting instead of the marked position?

Quote:

Quote: I've now run the diode test; the car bucked like a stubborn horse, stalled once, and emitted a lot of smoke during the starting phase. Logically, if the EGR valve is not 100% defective...

What do I understand by "not 100% defective"; could it also be 90% defective?

Best regards,

Mark.

hnsteyding wrote:

* -> White spot (marking?) Approximately 3mm of space. - -> Over-the-top (OT) marking applied. Is the engine set to "early" if I use the white mark as the OT (Top Dead Center) setting instead of the marked mark?

If the direction of rotation in your description is downwards, then the motor needs to be adjusted later when you use the colored mark to align it.

Quote:

What do I understand by "not 100% defective"; could it also mean 90% defective?

In other words, the AGR (Agile Response Group) is not allowed to open even a small amount, no matter how the MSG (Mission Support Group) tries to control it.

Hello specialists!

Okay, I've now adjusted the valve timing as follows:

- -> Indentations mark on the clutch disc.
Approximately 3mm of space.
- -> Center mark on the clutch bell.
The thread direction runs downwards.

That means that with this setting, I can insert the 6mm drill bit completely into the cylinder head.
So, I have the engine set to "early," right?

"However, I couldn't detect any change in the engine's behavior; according to the tachometer, the engine definitely reaches its limit at 3800 RPM in 6th gear on a straight road (corresponding to 210 km/h)." (Speedometer)
I then drove a very steep section (10-12% gradient) to see if the car could actually reach 230-235 km/h according to the speedometer in 6th gear. This was just barely possible with "pressing the gas pedal all the way to the floor" after a very long run-up. My previous ARL accelerated as if I were in 3rd gear. The car accelerates with full throttle, and then accelerates slightly slower, from approximately 225 km/h to 235 km/h; but then it definitely reached its maximum speed (which I was more than satisfied with ).

According to a forum post:
Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.
"It should provide more power and better acceleration in the higher RPM range, which is exactly the effect I need to be able to reach at least 4000 RPM in 6th gear (which would be approximately 225-230 km/h according to)." Speedometer reading: approximately 210 km/h (actual speed).

Here's how my Northwest (NW) spoke tensioning is set up (so all the spoke nipples are positioned relatively in the middle of the long holes).

-O-
-O- * -O-

If I understand correctly, "loveme" in the above-mentioned... Forum post, likely referring to the adjustment of the clamping screws:

--O
--O * --O

After this adjustment, his car is supposed to run "like a dream"; however, I'm hesitant to make this "aggressive" adjustment because I'm afraid the pistons will "take a hit" if they encounter the injected "diesel flame front" (too early engine timing)!!??
Or is that nonsense, and should I still give it a try?

Probably, I really need to get a performance test done on my car; I'm slowly starting to feel like an ASZ engine has been installed in it (then the performance would be okay).

Best regards,

Mark.

Zak1976 wrote:

It's not that much of a complicated process either; it's also very well described here in the forum. But why don't you check the catalytic converter/exhaust system, as Ulf already suggested? If the exhaust flow is restricted, it can definitely cause the symptoms you described. Does anyone know if there is significant variability in the results of ARL tests, and if so, is it more likely to be higher or lower?

Hello.

"Mine also had the K-Power engine with 128.5 kW and 333 Nm of torque."

Sure, here's the translation:

"MFG" is an abbreviation for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English.

I would secure the crankshaft with the positioning tool. Then, the 6mm drill bit should pass through the hole in the flywheel to the bore in the cylinder head. From this position, I would loosen the three clamping screws. Next, I would replace the drill bit with a 3mm or 4mm drill bit and insert it into the hole, while a second person should hold it "straight, at the right limit of the cylinder head lock." Then, I would turn the inner flywheel with a torque wrench to the right until the flywheel hits the drill bit (I hope the direction to the right is correct; I hope someone can confirm this). Then, re-tighten the three clamping screws, rotating them twice by hand to ensure the valves don't interfere with the pistons. Disconnect the KW stop, reassemble everything, and take it for a test drive.

Hello Zak1976!

I assume that the workshop performed the timing belt replacement using a positioning tool. Unfortunately, I don't have a tool for aligning the rear axle.

For the current setting, I rotated the motor further in the "early" direction (using a mark on the flywheel), loosened the clamping screws, and adjusted the spindle wheel so that the 6mm drill bit can be fully inserted.

I estimate that if I align the NW rotor marking and the OT marking on the flywheel with the corresponding other markings (the 4Z marking, the marking in the inspection hole of the clutch bell), then a 3mm drill bit should also fit into the cylinder head, because I only twisted the NW rotor very slightly (I could see this from the marked clamping screws).
Therefore, I think that this setting already "exists".

Thank you very much for your efforts!

Best regards,

Mark.

Nobi.k wrote:

Hello everyone, Measurement blocks are OK, No leaks, and no parts that are difficult to move! You're all looking for the "White Mice"! If you had your ARL (air intake restrictor) installed on the R32 back then, it wasn't a standard part. Please have your current ARL checked during a performance test to be sure. If it doesn't have 150 horsepower, contact VW and make their people think about it before you cause more damage!

Hello Nobi.k and the other specialists!

I just went to the ADAC and had them perform a performance test on my car.

Here's the result:

http://www.mark-steyding.homepage.t-online.de/Leistung.jpg

The ADAC representative also mentioned: According to the specifications, the vehicle's top speed is definitely 230 km/h. Speedometer installed.
He gave me the tip to ask a tuner if they could adjust the engine's performance maps so that the power doesn't drop off so much at higher RPMs.
Or I could try to find an expert in the Yellow Pages who can thoroughly examine the engine's performance characteristics.
"Perhaps I should also show the workshop the performance curve and have them check the MSG data for an update (although I'm worried that the car might then have less power because it could be 'limited' to the 'specified' 150 hp / 110 kW)."
I don't want to waste money and time on experts, workshops, or tuners unnecessarily.

I also don't know what to say to the workshop.

"The car only reaches 210 km/h, which corresponds to 3800 RPM, while the peak power is at 4000 RPM. I have a power curve here that shows the car has 178 horsepower, and it should actually be able to reach 230 km/h." "Please double-check everything there."

When you pick up the car, you'll probably see a four-digit amount on the bill, causing the friendly person's eyes to widen, and it will have been completely pointless.

The worst thing for me is that A) the used car warranty expires on October 7th, and B) I have to go back to work next week, and then I won't have much time to deal with the problems with my car.
I probably should have tested the car's top speed immediately after buying it. If I had, I probably wouldn't have bought the car, or I would have been constantly visiting the dealer every day.

I'm really desperate now; this just can't be happening.
- more than 150 horsepower
- All motor measurements are within acceptable limits.
- Timing is okay.
- LMM is okay.
- Kat is okay.
- The intercooler system is okay (also according to the measured values).
- Fuel supply is okay (tandem pump has been sealed and fuel filter has been replaced).
- The vacuum hoses are fine (also according to the measurements; otherwise, there would be problems with the boost pressure).
- The brakes aren't squealing either (they're only slightly warm to the touch after about 90km).
- LLK is also free of leaves, dirt, etc.
- Engine air filter is clean.
- No leaf filter in the intake snorkel (not a "Nordic version").

The car should be running perfectly, so why isn't it?

MtG (With sad greetings),

Mark.

To be honest, I find it hard to believe that there's a 20% performance variation upwards; it's possible that the measurements weren't accurate. The information doesn't seem to match your performance figures. Why don't you try the acceleration test that's often used in this forum, and compare the results. Let's see if you get similar values.
Besides the catalytic converter/exhaust system (restrictions), or valve timing, the PDE (pre-injection) system might not be properly adjusted or calibrated. Everything should still be fine up to 4000 RPM, as the turbocharger will be providing full boost and the fuel injection will be at its maximum. Otherwise, have the MSG software updated to the latest version, or take it to a reputable tuner. Do you happen to have a 4Motion model?

Hello Zak1976,

I can't imagine the measured power output; I was really hoping that the measurement would show a lower-than-expected value, so I could "throw" the performance chart "in the face" of the VW dealer and make him thoroughly check the engine.

Hmm, I don't think it's the timing; I already adjusted that, and it didn't make any difference at all (no increased fuel consumption, no change in engine sound, no better or worse acceleration).

So, I had already checked the cat (visually and by tapping) and had already written the following:

Quote:

hnsteyding wrote the following:: Okay, I've now logged the MWB entries 01, 10, and 13.

Does it look normal, or what?

ulf responded with the following:
Yes, including the air mass. If the catalytic converter were clogged, the reading might be lower... but as it is, nothing in the logs suggests that. Unfortunately.
He probably won't be the one.

No, I drive a "front-wheel drive" http://www.mark-steyding.homepage.t-online.de/LOG-01-001-010-013.CSV.

I have also compared all the MSG settings with the data on the page http://de.openobd.org/; everything is okay.

Hmm, if I do anything else, it will probably just be checking the PD units and flashing the MSG software (but I have some concerns about the latter).

I'll get back to you later.

Thank you for your efforts.

Best regards,

Mark.

I would try driving without the catalytic converter (it won't get any louder) to really rule out the exhaust system. That way, you can at least be sure that the problem isn't located there.
Why are you hesitant about updating to a newer software version? Usually, it improves performance and stability rather than making things worse. Let your current state be backed up, then load and test a newer version, and if necessary, you can restore your current state.
You could check the PDE settings, but if they are misconfigured, it would be a very unusual error.
I'm always a bit skeptical about performance tests, as there are probably more measurement errors in this area than anywhere else. Therefore, you should definitely use a draft calculation tool and let us know what kind of performance you're getting.
I took my old engine (AFN) to Bosch in Lüneburg for a dyno test because the car had little power, and I wanted to know how much power was still available. A master technician performed the dyno test, and the result was an astonishing 118 kW for a standard AFN engine with a power loss...
If you haven't noticed any difference when adjusting the valve timing, then you probably didn't do something correctly. Ulf once presented this with measured values; I believe there was an average of 10 horsepower more in the higher RPM range, and it was noticeable. Several other forum members have confirmed this as well. "On my ARL, a 3mm drill bit just barely fits into the long slot of the rear wheel hub when using the original KW stop. In this setting, the car feels noticeably more lively than in the "original setting," where a 6mm drill bit fits perfectly into the long slot."
You could also check the camshaft; it's a quick check. Just remove the valve cover and see if you can feel or detect any wear marks. How about the EGR valve? Is it already permanently blocked with a metal plate?

Hello everyone!

Brief update:

I have now set the valve timing back to the original settings. Okay, so I aligned the marking in the clutch housing inspection hole, the NW wheel marking (2 notches), and the 4Z marking, and then I fully inserted the 6mm drill bit into the ZK; I didn't have "anything to lose."

Initially, there were no noticeable changes in fuel consumption, acceleration, or speed, but after approximately 500-600 kilometers, the fuel consumption and acceleration improved. The fuel consumption has decreased by approximately 0.5L per 100km, and the fuel consumption while idling, with the air conditioning on, has changed from 1.1L/hour to 0.7-0.8L/hour; the outside temperature remained the same.
I haven't been able to test the top speed yet, but I'll report back when I do.

Hmm, that's strange; despite changing the "work settings" to "technical article settings" or following the good tips here in the forum, the driving behavior hasn't changed at all.
However, if you switch back from "expert mode" to "factory settings," there will be positive effects.

@Zak1976
I probably made a mistake again by resetting the timing settings to the factory defaults, which resulted in slightly better airflow and fuel consumption values .
Okay: No changes without a cat .

@Ulf
Perhaps I should try using the color mark on the clutch flywheel as the top dead center (TDC) point and then test it?!!

Best regards,

Mark.

hnsteyding wrote:

however after approximately 500-600 km the fuel consumption and power have improved. The consumption has decreased by approximately 0.5L/100km, and the fuel consumption while idling, with the air conditioning on, has changed from 1.1L/hour to 0.7-0.8L/hour.

Mysterious, the whole thing...

Quote:

I probably made a mistake again by resetting the timing settings to the factory defaults, which resulted in slightly better airflow and fuel consumption values

.
But, in my opinion, that should be immediately noticeable. Did you tighten all the screws with the correct torque, or could something have been misaligned?

Quote:

@Ulf Perhaps I should try using the color marking on the clutch flywheel as the TDC (Top Dead Center) point and then test it??!

That would be the wrong approach, IMO, as I already mentioned... but only by trying can you become wise .

Hello Ulf,

Yes, I also find that mysterious. I even revved the engine twice and then double-checked all the settings.

"I marked the screws according to a technical article because I didn't have a torque wrench, before loosening anything. Could the screws 'stretch' when repeatedly loosened and tightened, such that the torque when tightening up to the mark is no longer accurate, and could this then cause the engine timing to shift during operation?"
In this case, I probably need to quickly re-check the valve timing!

Quote:

In my opinion, that would be the wrong approach, as I already mentioned... but only by trying can you become wise.

Yes, I thought so too; I'll try out the setting sometime and let you know how it goes.

Best regards,

Mark.

hnsteyding wrote:

Can the screws "stretch" when repeatedly loosened and tightened, such that the torque during tightening does not reach the mark

?
IMO, it shouldn't be like that, especially since the NW terminal screws, according to the RLF, are not expansion screws.