Detaillierte Frage: Audi A6 2.0 TDI + Biodiesel | Posts 48+

joergs wrote:

Audi or VW, as mentioned earlier, will have their reasons, which may not be understandable to you.

I don't doubt that they have their reasons. That's why I asked where the difference lies between versions with a bio-kit and those without, in order to find out those reasons. The only thing I criticized is that it seems no manufacturer is really interested in effectively eliminating the problems that can be caused by biodiesel through technical solutions. We're flying to Mars, but we can't even manage to build a biodiesel-resistant seal/VEP into a car. I can't wrap my head around that.

If the missing fuel sensor is truly the only difference between the A3/A6 variants with and without the Bio-Kit, then I will try fueling my A6 with BD. However, you will have to wait until March for feedback, as that's how long it will take for it to be delivered to my door .

@Bertil

I can just as easily reverse the narrative about carbon neutrality if I consider a larger timeframe than just the next 2 or 3 generations.


'It's as if a share of CO2 that has been stored for millions of years is suddenly released in just a hundred years. How do you propose to deal with this excess CO2 for the current time period? Surely you don't dispute the climatic impact of CO2. Please also consider the climate changes that have occurred over the millions of years since the formation of crude oil. There have also been ice ages and other such events during that time.'

What alternatives do you offer? How much longer do you want to continue burning fossil fuels?

Unfortunately, with modern PD and CR engines, the particle emissions increase significantly with the use of BD. BD is not as easily atomized, which causes the particle levels to rise again (this is also a reason for the withdrawn BD approval).

Excuse me, where does this claim come from? If you can be a little patient (until the weekend), I will find studies on PD engines that state the exact opposite. However, I would also appreciate it if you could provide verifiable sources to support your statement.
P.S.: Or are you only referring to the most recent PD engines for EU4? In that case, the statement might be correct.

Regards,

Dirk.

Dirk_S wrote:

P.S.: Or are you only referring to the most recent PD engines for EU4? In that case, the statement might be correct.

"That's where the problem lies. It's not an issue with EU3 (and older) engines. The combustion process in EU4 engines is quite sensitive and is significantly disrupted by biodiesel. While the particulate matter also decreases, the benefit is only in the single-digit percentage range. This is offset by the increased fuel consumption. The lower the emissions a motor is supposed to produce, the more important the tuning to the fuel becomes. Unfortunately, a simple fuel sensor is not sufficient to adjust the mechanical system (fuel injectors) to a different fuel."

Quote:

Only a fraction of the CO2 that has been stored over millions of years is released in a matter of decades. How do you propose to capture this excess CO2 for the current time period? Surely, you cannot deny the climatic impact of CO2. Please also consider the climate changes that occurred over the millions of years since the formation of crude oil. There were also ice ages and such minor events back then.

That's understandable, but I can't just look at such a system through the lens of the past 100 years.
Even if we consider a 100,000-year timeframe, the prospects for "renewable" raw materials don't look good.
That should be my statement.

Quote:

What alternatives do you offer? How much longer would you like to continue burning fossil fuels?

I can't accept any offers. BD, in particular, is not for me.
I see pure synthetic oil as a more viable alternative. However, our current engines would need to be adapted to accommodate it, so that the technology becomes suitable for the "average consumer." A certain Mr. L. Elsbett demonstrated many years ago that this is perfectly possible.
I would prefer to drive using alternative fuels starting today, but only if the entire infrastructure is in place (engine tuning, lowest possible energy consumption for production, etc.). This is not the case with biodiesel (BD) at the moment.


Okay, I hope I've made it clear that I'm not against BD (presumably referring to a specific technology or product), but I'm questioning it from a technical and economic perspective.
I didn't choose a (expensive) EU4 car two years ago to have that benefit nullified (the AXR engine doesn't meet the EU4 standard with BD!).

Are these confirmed facts, or do you mean that the new VAG-BD kit MIGHT be the one in question?


Bosch and VAG officially state this. It's official!


Even you wouldn't do that, because as a gas station owner, you would make sure to maximize your profit. If it costs you 10-15 cents per liter less than diesel, you would do that too. Gas station owners aren't stupid. They make sure that they get the most profit.

You mean the customer is stupid. As a tenant, what's important to me is long-term and sustainable customer loyalty, because that brings more money into the till in the long run.
It's especially beneficial when I offer my fuel at a lower price than the competition. Even a slight price increase allows me to make more profit, and then there's the increased sales volume. I might even gain new customers *because* the price difference is so significant.

Compare that to the 'cheap' restaurants in Munich. Every meal for €5. The place is packed, and the cash register is overflowing.


And once again: Biodiesel and rapeseed oil are not mineral oils! So why should they be subject to a mineral oil tax?

Biodiesel and other biofuels ARE subject to mineral oil tax!
Currently, the tax rate is 0%!
and that's only valid until December 31, 2009. After that, it will need to be renegotiated...

CU Gremlin.

Gremlin wrote:

Nero24 wrote: Are these confirmed facts, or do you mean that the new VAG BD kit MIGHT be what we're talking about? Bosch and VAG officially write about it. Glozzn off!

Where is this supposed to be? On the entire Bosch domain, you only find a single document that deals with RME, and it's from 2003, and it doesn't mention a single word about the current bio-kits from Audi and VW:
http://aa.bosch.de/aa/de/berufsschulinfo/media/2003_1.pdf

And everything that Audi and VW write about this topic (in the configurator, and nowhere else):

Quote:

RME version (Biodiesel) The use of RME fuel (biodiesel) according to the FAME EN 14214 standard is possible down to approximately -10°C. Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English: "Note:" - Only available for diesel engines. - Not orderable in conjunction with a parking heater

. Very informative. RME can only be ordered in conjunction with diesel engines! Who would have thought...?

@Bertil

Thank you for your answers. Regarding the question of whether BD is now an alternative, we will probably continue to have different opinions. That's just how life is

Regarding the following point, I would like to add just one note:
Unfortunately, a simple 'cheap' fuel sensor is not sufficient to adjust the mechanical system (fuel injectors) to a different fuel type.
VW, however, intends to offer precisely this 'simple' sensor in order to meet the EU4 standards, at least according to the information I have received from VW and the BD lobby.

Regards,

Dirk.

Dirk_S wrote:

@Bertil Thank you for your answers. Regarding the question of whether BD is now an alternative, we will probably continue to have different opinions. That's just how life is

No problem, I won't try to convince anyone .

Quote:

Regarding the following point, I would like to add just one note: Quote: Unfortunately, a simple "cheap" fuel sensor is not sufficient to adjust the mechanical system (fuel injectors) to a different fuel type. VW, however, intends to offer precisely this "simple" sensor in order to meet the EU4 emissions standard, at least according to the information I have received from VW and the BD lobby.

Right, the engine will be "detuned" using maps to meet the EU4 emissions standards.
One of the two fuel types will likely result in a suboptimal compromise, or the engine will be tuned to a compromise setting for both fuel types. However, this would then exceed the limits of what is technically feasible in terms of emissions (unfortunately). Let's not even talk about the achievable performance.

Today, there's a significant price drop at the gas station (compared to yesterday).

BD: 83 Ct.
Diesel: 94 Ct.
Diff: 11 cents.

Diesel fuel decreased by 5 cents, and biodiesel by only 1 cent – that's what they call a pricing strategy!

Hello,

I don't want to write anything about the pros and cons of BD, but I'd like to give you some more information:

A TDi Beetle is participating in the endurance championship at the Nürburgring. It's equipped with a PD engine that has been running on Biodiesel (BD) for at least two years. The BD is typically delivered in a 1000-liter tank in March, and it's still not empty by the end of the season, around October. So much for oxidation.

So far, there have been no defects in the PD elements. This year, the engine 'failed' during the final stages of the 24-hour race. The subsequent inspection revealed no damage to the PD elements.

In September, we made a few modifications, including a change to the ZK (presumably a component). As before, there was no damage to the PD elements, and they remained the original ones.

I admit, the engine doesn't have a very high mileage. It covers approximately 11,000 km/year, but always close to its limit. A revision will not be carried out as long as there is no damage. The damages that occurred this year were turbocharger failures, which, after 6 replaced compressors, turned out to be due to an error in the oil supply.

We will also be switching our Golf to winter tires (BD) this winter. We will share our experiences in the respective race reports.

Currently, I don't own a diesel car, but that will change at the beginning of next year. I'm planning to get an Ibiza 6K with an AFN engine and convert it to run on biodiesel. I just love the idea of driving around with something that's grown (almost) right outside my door, in the field.

Regards,
Stefan.