TSI anstatt TDI | Posts 80+

To the best of my knowledge, all current gasoline engines operate with over-fueling at full load, providing more torque and protecting the catalytic converter. Some turbocharged Focus models are even said to run with a Lambda value of 0.6, resulting in corresponding fuel consumption. The new 1.8 TFSI engine is supposedly slightly better, as it is designed to withstand higher exhaust temperatures than the older engines. Unfortunately, I don't have any sources or links readily available; it would be better to create bookmarks right away.
But whoever can show me a shell diagram for a current gasoline engine will be crowned king...

Well, everything has been said, and in my opinion, in this particular case, it won't lead us to an agreement.

By the way, the same engines can sometimes be used in different vehicles, but they may have different engine control unit (ECU) maps. Therefore, the cw-value limitation is eliminated!

Hi,

Quote:

Or why else would they exist?

Regarding everything else, enough has already been written... they exist because the maximum allowable fuel injection amount is functionally dependent on a number of parameters (throttle position, air mass, engine speed, etc.). One could create an extremely complex function and have the control unit calculate it, but the processor would likely be unable to handle it, and guaranteed response times would be difficult to achieve. Therefore, a much simpler approach is to create a large table with corresponding dimensions based on "a few" reference values. Instead of calculating f(a, b, c, d), the computer simply looks up the values of a, b, c, and d in the appropriate location in the table (in this case, a four-dimensional table). That's all there is to it; it's just a lookup table.

The vehicle's special features are only implemented to a limited extent, such as restricting torque to prevent damage to the transmission or to ensure compliance with emission standards.

With your speedometer reading 210 km/h and then going uphill, the air-fuel ratio (ASZ) is likely already in the significantly decreasing range of its characteristic curve, so the speed-related drop in engine speed naturally leads to increased fuel injection.

At ASV, the fuel gauge behaves in a peculiar way. When you're driving at very high speeds (uphill, speedometer at 220 km/h, 4600 RPM), the gauge might show only 10 liters remaining, even though you're flooring the accelerator. Then, as you slow down towards 200 km/h, the reading might increase again to 12 liters or so. The maximum reading of 13+ liters, as Ulf mentioned, occurs at around 2000 RPM or just under 100 km/h in 5th gear. Okay.

Best regards,

Jan.

Okay, great... so we've already agreed to disregard what VW inserted and the reports written by the developers. Now we have him here too...

I didn't realize that MTZ reports could be published like that; they tend to be quite blunt. It wasn't exactly new information that the TSI engine operates with a lambda value of 1 at high RPMs.

"...wow, a baking sheet in front of the LLK (likely referring to a specific piece of equipment) is a great thing... especially if you have a TSI (likely referring to a specific type of engine or system) underneath..."

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

... I didn't even know that MTZ reports could be published like that, ...

Certainly not! Let's see how long the guy's website stays online .


For those who would like to purchase the newspaper: All4Engineers

_Micha_80_ wrote:

No fouling due to component protection for the turbocharger (ATL) and exhaust manifold (exhaust temperatures up to 1050 °C permissible)

In other places:

MTZ wrote:

To allow the customer to fully utilize the potential of the TSI concept, we largely avoid component temperature-dependent lubrication. Bitte gib den Text an, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English: "In golf, you can use the chosen translation in the 6th." The vehicle was traveling at a speed of 200 km/h with a Lambda value of 1.

What does that mean between the lines?
For a stationary speed of 200 km/h, I believe approximately 130 horsepower would be sufficient.
For the remaining 40 horsepower, or approximately 20 km/h up to the maximum speed, I estimate that the engine is still running with internal cooling through over-fueling.

What does that mean between the lines?
For a stationary speed of 200 km/h, I believe approximately 130 horsepower would be sufficient.
For the remaining 40 horsepower, or approximately 20 km/h up to the maximum speed, I estimate that the engine is still running with internal cooling through over-fueling.

I see it exactly the same way.
Even with any type of acceleration in high-speed ranges, component cooling via IMA is necessary because more than approximately 130 horsepower is required in these situations.

I don't find the maximum component temperature of 1050°C described in the MTZ reports to be particularly high. Because our 'cold' diesel engines can already produce exhaust temperatures of up to 850°C.
Even in naturally aspirated gasoline engines with relatively low power output (less than 100 kW), I have seen glowing exhaust manifolds more than once on test benches.

What makes me suspicious:
If the TSI engine can truly achieve a Lambda value of 1 at 200 km/h and largely relies on component cooling through fuel enrichment, why does it consume roughly the same amount of fuel at high speeds as an 'older' 1.8T engine?

Apparently, the turbocharger consumes so much energy at the higher boost levels (1.5 bar compared to the 0.8 bar of the 1.8T) that the energy saved from reduced cooling is offset by the energy required to generate that boost.
That's all there is to say about improving the efficiency of the TSI engine.

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

What makes me suspicious: If the TSI engine can truly achieve a Lambda value of 1 at 200 km/h and largely relies on component cooling through fuel enrichment, why does it consume roughly the same amount of fuel at high speeds as an "older" 1.8T engine? Apparently, the turbocharger consumes so much energy at the higher boost levels (1.5 bar compared to the 0.8 bar of the 1.8T) that the energy saved from reduced cooling is offset by the energy required to generate that boost. That's all there is to say about improving the efficiency of the TSI engine.

Regarding the fuel consumption of the current 1.8T engine with 150 horsepower:
http://forum.polo9n.info/viewtopic.php?t=4275&start=47
"26 l/100 km seems significantly higher than the 20.5 l reported for the 170 hp TSI engine according to AutoBlöd."

However, it would be necessary to calculate the full-load consumption per hour (and kW) based on the rpm to km/h conversions in order to eliminate the influence of the transmission.

The MTZ shell diagram (Figure 11 in Part 2) also indicates residual over-fueling in the TSI. The efficiency optimum, with approximately 233 g/kWh, is achieved at a mean pressure of 15 bar. At full load (22 bar), the consumption is likely to be around 260 g/kWh.