OM 605.960 2,5 L 5 Zylinder Turbo 20 Ventiler marinesieren | Posts 96+

Hello Jens 16syncro,
You are absolutely right.
- "No torque in the lower RPM range."
Please refer to my notes from June 15, 2007, for further information.
I can only advise against using this type of inner tube.

"- VW uses water-cooled turbochargers, ... even variable geometry turbo (VTG) turbochargers."
And the currently largest ((3.0 liter)) engine from VW Marine has an (original car) VTG turbocharger that is air-cooled .
Many boat engine manufacturers are following this path with air-cooled variable geometry turbochargers (VTGs), such as Steyr, Mercruiser, and even the new D3 from Volvo Penta.


Best regards,
tdi on water

It's important to remember that the OM605 is a high-revving turbocharged diesel engine, and it also has 4 valves per cylinder. The lack of displacement is compensated for by its high RPM and good scavenging. Overall, I am very excited to see the results.
Especially when it comes to adjusting the fuel injection pump.
When running the engine for the first time, you should definitely keep an eye on the boost pressure.
The OM605 requires 0.95 bar of boost pressure. Adjusting the turbocharger's boost will likely be difficult due to the limited space, so it's worth considering installing a blow-off valve. This allows you to regulate the pressure for controlling the wastegate from the outside, in case the turbocharger is factory set to too low of a boost pressure, which is often the case.

The only thing I would have changed is the Gardena gasoline filter, which can cause air problems, specifically due to the fuel connections. For safety's sake, it's a good idea to carry some Teflon tape in your onboard toolkit.

The old OM617 turbocharged diesel engine (3 liters, 5 cylinders, 125 hp) originally came with a K26 turbocharger.
The old OM603 turbocharged diesel engine (3 liters, 6 cylinders, 147 hp) had a K24 turbocharger.

I would say that the K26 isn't really that oversized.
As Tagessuppe said, you can slightly increase the injection pump's output, and then even the K26 might be too small .

Best regards, Rodion.

rodNeX wrote:

The old OM617 turbocharged diesel engine (3 liters, 5 cylinders, 125 hp) had a K26. The old OM603 turbocharged diesel engine (3 liters, 6 cylinders, 147 hp) had a K24 turbocharger.

Yes.
Both engines are torque monsters, but they lack torque in the lower RPM range.
I find the examples rather discouraging.

Regards,
Jens.

Tagessuppe wrote:

It should not be forgotten that the OM605 is a very high-revving turbocharged diesel engine, which also has 4 valves per cylinder. The lack of displacement is compensated for here by revs and good scavenging. All in all, I am very excited about the result. Especially when it comes to adjusting the fuel injection pump. When running the engine for the first time, you should definitely keep an eye on the boost pressure. The OM605 requires 0.95 bar of boost pressure. Adjusting the turbocharger's boost will likely be difficult due to the limited space, so it's worth considering installing a blow-off valve. This allows you to regulate the pressure for controlling the wastegate from the outside, in case the turbocharger is factory set to too low of a boost pressure, which is often the case. The only thing I would have changed is the Gardena gasoline filter, which can cause air problems, specifically due to the fuel connections. For safety, you should carry a piece of Teflon tape in your onboard toolkit.

The charger is unregulated, so a regulation system needs to be implemented anyway.

tdi on water wrote:

Hello Jens 16syncro, You are absolutely right. - "No torque in the lower RPM range." Please refer to my notes from June 15, 2007, for further information. I can only advise against using this type of inner tube. "- VW uses water-cooled turbochargers, ... even variable geometry turbo (VTG) turbochargers." And the currently largest ((3.0 liter)) engine from VW Marine has an (original car) VTG turbocharger that is air-cooled . Many boat engine manufacturers are following this path with air-cooled variable geometry turbochargers (VTGs), such as Steyr, Mercruiser, and even the new D3 from Volvo Penta. Best regards, tdi on water

Hello tdi on water,

You're probably right; there are definitely better chargers out there.
But I don't think I can afford it.
I bought 2 new chargers for a few euros.
I will test it with these two.
If it really turns out to be that bad, I'll probably just bite the bullet and buy another loader.

wolfgang b. wrote:

Hello tdi on water, You're probably right; there are definitely better chargers out there. But I don't think I can afford it. I bought 2 new chargers for a few euros. I will test it with these two. If it really turns out to be that bad, I will probably have to bite the bullet and buy another charger.

Why?
Just use a suitable turbocharger from the passenger car sector.

A turbodiesel engine with low torque at low RPM is not suitable for use in a boat. The whole point is to utilize the available torque.
Large propeller and low RPM, because the power needed for a large propeller is already available.


Your K26 turbocharger produces almost no boost pressure in the lower RPM range, which is why a boost control system is not necessary.
"This type of turbocharger (K26) was/is used in VOLVO PENTA engines with displacements from 2.4 to over 3.0 liters, and it never reaches a critical boost pressure level. Not even at full throttle!!! So, what's the point of trying to regulate it?"
That's why VOLVO PENTA installed the supercharger in front of the KAD xx engine for a specific reason.


Best regards,
tdi on water

tdi on water wrote:

Why don't you just use a suitable turbocharger from the passenger car sector?

Hi there,
I would call that the KKK K16.
"These are relatively inexpensive used parts, as they were installed in vehicles like the Volkswagen Golf II, Passat 35i, and Audi 80 with a 1.6L TD engine (engine code JR), manufactured from 1984 to 1991."
Don't be bothered by the small displacement of the little Golf engine; the KKK K16 was actually too large for it. It didn't really start producing significant boost until around 3000 rpm. Later, the same turbocharger was used on the 2.5L TDI, and even there, it wasn't undersized.
Even if you can't find a good used one, you can still have it refurbished for a small amount of money. So, you could buy a bad one for 50 euros .

@ TDI on water
According to the VW Marine website, they are now using a fully water-cooled VTG turbocharger (see the downloadable self-study program).

Regards,
Jens.

Hello Jens 16syncro.

That's true, but only for the turbo engines up to the 5-cylinder engine.
The VW Marine V6 engine has an air-cooled variable geometry turbocharger.

When I click on your links, nothing useful appears.
Could you show me a charger from that online store with "e..." in the name?

wolfgang b. wrote:

When I click on your links, I don't see anything useful displayed. Can you show me a charger from that online store with "e..." in the name?

Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English.

Turbocharger for VW Golf/Jetta II 1.6 TD, New, T4 Automatic Transmission, Item #260137944327.

Thank you, Jens.

If I were to choose only one oil cooler, could I also use the original Mercedes charger from the OM602 turbocharged engine? Or do you think the KKK K16 will provide more power?

Do you perhaps know of a loader of that size that has water cooling in the exhaust area?

My nephew, whose girlfriend is studying mechanical engineering with a focus on turbochargers, occasionally works part-time at Volkswagen.
I gave him the datasheet for the OM 352A turbocharger.

"Quote:"
Hello Wolfgang,

I gave Kai the information, and he did some calculations.

He says the engine should have full boost pressure of approximately 1.7 to 1.9 bar from 2100 to 4000 RPM.

At 4000 RPM, it produces approximately 225 horsepower, and the maximum power output is 255 horsepower at 4800 RPM.

I think this is more than enough if it works.

"The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog."

"Quote:"
Dear Mr. Biedermann,

Please find attached the drawing and compressor map for turbocharger 5326 970 6025.

Application: OM352A engine with a displacement of 5.68 liters and an output of 89 kW at 1,800 rpm.

Sincerely,

Matthias Kipper.
Sales - IDS/Technical Support

BorgWarner Turbo Systems GmbH

"The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog."

I'm a little torn .

Here is a water-cooled turbocharger from a Volkswagen Golf II (engine codes: SB, RA).

Golf 2 1.6 TD Passat 35i Turbocharger 80 HP Intercooler MBK SB RA_W0 item number 220130409757 ih 012 category 61310 ssPageName WDVW rd 1 cmd ViewItem

wolfgang b. wrote:

Do you perhaps know of a loader of that size that has water cooling in the exhaust area?

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm not aware of any turbochargers from the passenger car sector that have water cooling for the entire exhaust side (i.e., the whole turbine housing).
In my opinion, it wouldn't work in a passenger car either, because the amount of heat that would need to be dissipated would put too much strain on the normal cooling system. In the marine sector, you have an endless supply of coolant (seawater), so it's perfectly feasible there.
Water-cooled turbochargers in the automotive sector only cool the bearing housing. This is a small component and doesn't absorb a huge amount of heat energy. This prevents premature wear of the shaft bearings, so the turbocharger typically lasts much longer.
I don't know how that works for trucks, since your turbocharger comes from the truck industry.

The turbocharger from the Golf RA/SB mentioned in the next post, a KKK 14 6087, is definitely too small for a 3-liter engine; it won't work. The turbo will likely overspin. Also, this turbo only has its bearing housing water-cooled.

Your turbo currently doesn't have a wastegate. Do you want to add an external one or leave it as is? If the turbo is designed in such a way that it never reaches the critical pressure range without a wastegate, it won't be able to produce much boost at low RPMs, which is impossible. This isn't really a problem with truck engines because of their inherently narrow RPM range, but it's practically never done with car engines.

You'll only know for sure when you've tried it . If DB used the same turbo on this engine, then take it; it should work. Or are the car versions of this turbo actually different (different trim, wastegate, etc.)?
The basic designation of a turbocharger only indicates the series and thus the size of the compressor housing. The trim (compressor size and design) can be varied depending on the customer's requirements, so turbos cannot be compared based solely on their basic type.

Regards,
Jens.

tdi on water wrote:

Many boat engine manufacturers are following this path with air-cooled variable geometry turbochargers (VTGs), such as Steyr, Mercruiser, and even the new D3 from Volvo Penta.

Hi there!

I think they do that because there are very few water-cooled VTG turbochargers available, and the small production volumes don't allow for custom manufacturing. Mass production from the automotive sector is simply much more cost-effective.

Regards,
Jens.

Jens 16syncro wrote:

wolfgang b. wrote: Do you perhaps know of a loader of that size that has water cooling in the exhaust area? Hi Wolfgang, I'm not aware of any turbochargers from the passenger car sector that have water cooling for the entire exhaust side (i.e., the whole turbine housing). In my opinion, it wouldn't work in a car either, because the amount of heat that would need to be dissipated would put too much strain on the normal car cooling system. In the marine environment, you have an endless supply of coolant (seawater), so it's perfectly feasible there. "Water-cooled turbochargers in the passenger car sector only cool the bearing housing. This is a small component and does not absorb a huge amount of heat energy. This prevents premature wear of the shaft bearings, so the turbocharger typically lasts much longer." I don't know how that works for trucks, since your turbocharger comes from the truck industry. The turbocharger from the Golf RA/SB mentioned in the next post, a KKK 14 6087, is definitely too small for a 3-liter engine; it won't work. The turbo will likely overspin. Also, this turbo only has its bearing housing water-cooled. Your turbo currently doesn't have a wastegate. Do you want to add an external one or leave it as is? If the turbo is designed in such a way that it never reaches the critical pressure range without a wastegate, it won't be able to produce much boost at low RPMs, which is impossible. This isn't really a problem with truck engines because of their inherently narrow RPM range, but it's practically never done with car engines. You'll only know for sure when you've tried it . If DB used the same turbo on this engine, then take it; it should work. Or are the car versions of this turbo actually different (different trim, wastegate, etc.)? The basic designation of a turbocharger only indicates the series and thus the size of the compressor housing. The trim (compressor size and design) can be varied depending on the customer's requirements, so turbomachines cannot be compared solely based on their basic type. Regards, Jens

.

Hello Jens,

I'll test it out first.
I will connect a boost pressure gauge to the turbocharger.
Can I test this without a load up to 4000 RPM, or does the motor need to be run under load for that?
I will record the boost pressure in a table approximately every 300 revolutions and then post it here for further discussion.
It will still take some time.
After that, I wanted to decide whether or not to install an external wastegate.
If so, then one that is adjustable.