Kaltstartproplem beim 1Z nicht gelöst *heul* | Posts 96+

haehnlein wrote:

While driving with the engine cold (5th gear at approximately 80 km/h) and using the overrun cutoff function, if you suddenly press the accelerator, nothing happens for about half a second, then there's a slight jolt, and a small white flag pops out from the rear. However, I've only noticed this when the engine is cold. Wenn nun ein klemmendes Mengenstellwerk die Ursache ist, sollte es doch kein Problem sein einfach die Sache zu ignorieren? Oder war da nicht mal was mit Bertil`s 1Z (->liegengeblieben)???

Hi Christian,

What still surprises me is the white smoke coming from your car; I can't explain it.
Especially when the engine is already running, every injected droplet of diesel should actually burn – as long as there is enough air in the cylinder.

Severe malfunctions of the turnout mechanism should normally be recorded in the error memory.
If the thing is actually stuck, you'll probably have no choice but to open the cover and try to free it manually as much as possible, regardless of what VAGCOM says.
If I were you, I would try it already.

Bertil himself is probably the best person to comment on his failure to achieve his goals.

Quote:

Unfortunately, it seems to be common practice these days in many areas for the customer to be the (of course, unpaid) guinea pig.

That's probably true, but the 1Z is already obsolete from a development perspective. Therefore, VAG likely no longer considers you a (useful) test driver.

ulf wrote:

What still surprises me a bit is the white smoke coming from your car; I can't explain it. Especially when the engine is already running, every injected droplet of diesel should actually burn – as long as there is enough air in the cylinder.

Well, the bronchi are definitely clear now that he's quit smoking .
Of course, there's also some water vapor in the exhaust gases, which is especially noticeable at the back of the car when the engine is cold. It was probably just a little bit of white smoke immediately after the jolt, likely due to condensed water from the exhaust system.

ulf wrote:

Gravierende Fehlfunktionen des Mengenstellwerks sollten eigentlich im Fehlerspeicher stehen.

I got some crocodile clips today for the adapter test... !

ulf wrote:

If the thing is actually stuck, you probably won't be able to avoid opening the cover and trying to free it up manually as much as possible, regardless of what VAGCOM says. An Deiner Stelle würde ich das schon jetzt probieren.

Doesn't the MSW need to be adjusted precisely to 0.1 mm? I have a dial indicator that measures from 0 to 5 mm there .

ulf wrote:

Quote: Unfortunately, it seems to be common practice in many areas today for the customer to be the (of course, unpaid) guinea pig. Stimmt wohl, aber der 1Z ist entwicklungstechnisch schon längst tot. Daher sieht VAG Dich wohl nicht mehr als (nützlichen) Testfahrer an . . .

Well, when it comes to bicycle frames, all sorts of designs have been tried... but in the Tour de France, you only see conventional frames ... who knows what the future holds!?

Best regards, Christian.

ulf wrote:

What still surprises me a little is the white smoke coming from your car; I can't explain it. Especially when the engine is already running, every injected droplet of diesel should actually burn – as long as there is enough air in the cylinder.

That also surprises me... because a diesel engine normally only produces white smoke when there's too much fuel in the mixture; otherwise, it tends to produce black smoke.

Quote:

Severe malfunctions of the turnout mechanism should normally be recorded in the error memory. If the thing is actually stuck, you'll probably have no choice but to open the cover and try to free it manually as much as possible, regardless of what VAGCOM says. If I were you, I would try it already.

"So, after a point machine clamp, I would definitely search for it with all possible speed!"

Quote:

Bertil himself is probably the best person to comment on his failure to achieve his goals.

"... is not definitively clarified. Apparently, there's a cold solder joint on the relay board (which was also present, but whether that caused the issue – strong doubts)."
/viewtopic.php?p=6184#6184

Quote:

Quote: Unfortunately, it seems to be common practice these days in many areas for the customer to be the (of course, unpaid) guinea pig. Stimmt wohl, aber der 1Z ist entwicklungstechnisch schon längst tot. Daher sieht VAG Dich wohl nicht mehr als (nützlichen) Testfahrer an . . .

Okay, so I think with the 1Z engine, you really have to help yourself. It's the first somewhat complex diesel engine from VAG. If you take it to a VAG mechanic's shop, they'll already see dollar signs in their eyes. They would love to sell you a new car right away because it can sometimes be difficult to diagnose problems.

haehnlein wrote:

Doesn't the measuring instrument (MSW) need to be adjusted precisely to 0.1 mm? I have a micrometer gauge that measures from 0 to 5 mm there.

Hi Christian,

If you loosen the correct screws (only the top four for the lid), the MSW unit will not shift.

With a protractor, I don't think much can be done, because it would probably be difficult to find a properly defined reference point .

Bertil wrote:

Quote: Bertil himself is probably the best person to comment on his failure to achieve his goals. ... is definitively not 100% clear. Apparently, there was a cold solder joint on the relay board (which was also present, but whether the jerking came from that – strong doubts). /viewtopic.php?p=6184#6184

Hi Bertil.

In the link you mentioned, you wrote about a broken cable behind the relay panel – which is something I might also encounter with my 3-series car.

But a cold solder joint . I only see crimped connectors; any potential solder joints would likely be inside the main electrical unit. And to access them (for resoldering), one would probably have to disassemble the block .

Hello Christian!

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to check the timing belt adjustment yet, but hopefully I'll be able to do it on Saturday!

When driving with the engine shut-off feature enabled at cold start (5th gear, approximately 80 km/h) and suddenly accelerating, nothing happens for about half a second, then there's a slight jolt, and a small white flag pops out from the rear. However, I have only noticed this when the engine is cold.

Reading that, I immediately thought of when my crankshaft pulley was loose. It initially emitted a small puff of smoke when accelerating suddenly, and over time, it got worse and happened more frequently.
The strange noises you described at the beginning ('wrum wrum...'), also reminded me strongly of that time!

Are you sure the kilowatt-hour meter is working correctly?

Best regards,
Wolfgang.

NVE wrote:

Reading that, I immediately thought of when my crankshaft pulley was loose. It initially emitted a small puff of smoke when accelerating suddenly, and over time, it got worse and happened more frequently. The strange noises you described at the beginning ("wrum wrum..."), also reminded me strongly of that time! Are you sure the kilowatt-hour meter is working correctly?

Hi Wolfgang,

jetzt mach mir bitte keine Angst!!! Das wärs ja noch....aber beim Zahnriemenwechsel habe ich danach geschaut. Hab zwar den Gegenhalter fürs KW-Rad nicht dran geschraubt und mal nachgezogen....aber die alten Steuerzeiten waren i.O., der statische Förderbeginn hat sich auch nicht verändert und die 12.9 ist drin. Aber vielleicht verdreht sich das KW-Rad erst bei laufendem Motor.

How did your engine start up when it was cold back then? Did the car have a lack of power (which I can't say about mine)?

What did the Bosch service center quote you for the repair? Well, I was probably going to try taking it apart myself and replacing the timing belt, plus having it towed to a repair shop... but I don't want to jinx anything.

If that's the cause, then I guess I have to befriend a Toyota repair forum .....which I really don't want to do: they supposedly never break down .

Best regards, Christian.

ulf wrote:

In the link you mentioned, you wrote about a broken cable behind the relay panel – which is something I might also encounter with my 3-series car.

Sorry, Ulf.

Okay - cable break, not KaLö. I inserted the link, but quoted the error from memory... Micro Alzheimer...

Hi Christian!

'For me, cold starts have never been an issue, even with very loose torque wrench settings (I really wanted to go to my friend's workshop), I was able to start the engine without any problems.'

The performance was generally normal, of course, except for the rare occasions (when accelerating, with a puff of white smoke) where it would momentarily (for about 2 seconds) fail to properly engage the throttle and have very little power.

My Bosch workshop charged around €350 for the milling work, the timing belt replacement including the tensioner pulley, the screw, and the adjustment (which, in my opinion, was not done correctly). However, I don't remember the exact amount anymore, and the invoice seems to be lost. If I find it, I will post it. But I should mention that I had already removed all the auxiliary parts (air filter + hoses, timing belt cover top and bottom) beforehand, so they wouldn't have to spend as much time on it!

Okay, here's a question I have myself: If my injection timing is set to 17° at idle, does that mean the static setting is 17° too early, and that the dynamic adjustment corrects this? This would suggest that the timing belt is misaligned by a few teeth. Is there much that can be changed with ESP (Electronic Stability Program) in this case?
Best regards,
Wolfgang.

NVE wrote:

Okay, here's a question I have myself: If my injection timing is set to 17° at idle, does that mean the static setting is 17° too early, and that the dynamic adjustment corrects this? This would suggest that the timing belt is misaligned by a few teeth. Is there much that can be changed with ESP (Electronic Stability Program) in this case?Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,

ich glaube der statische und der dynamische Förderbeginn unterscheiden sich bei warmen Motor nicht. Die EDC stellt jediglich als Ersatz für den Joke den Förderbeginn beim Kaltstart auf zu früh. Wenn nun der statische nicht richtig ist, dann stimmt auch der dynamische nicht und die EDC kann diesen auch nicht auf den richtigen Wert nachregeln->d.h. wenn die Lage der ESP falsch ist, dann ist der Förderbeginn auch falsch (->gilt nur für 1z und älter!) ......also um ein paar Rillen ist übertrieben->dann würde gar nichts mehr gehen!!!! Wen"At most, one groove is used -> meaning the workshop was too lazy to re-align the belt properly and tried to compensate for this error, but it's not possible to achieve optimal results!"

Verbessert mich wenn ein Denkfehler drin ist!

Best regards, Christian.

haehnlein wrote:

ich glaube der statische und der dynamische Förderbeginn unterscheiden sich bei warmen Motor nicht. . .

Hi Christian,

The EDC (Electronic Die Casting) system can correct for certain types of errors within specified limits, depending on the load conditions and the desired injection start time.

In order for the correct injection timing to be adjusted across the entire range of load and speed, the pump must be very precisely calibrated.
The target value at idle is around 3° vOT. And a 14° error (up to 17°) definitely cannot be compensated for by the injection timing adjustment.

For those who are not yet familiar with it: --> A technical article about pump adjustment .

Hi,

I was at Dennis's (GafieldMZ) place today, and I was finally able to try out my VAG-COM with his adapter, and I would like to thank him again from the bottom of my heart !!!!!

Okay:

First, the error memory displayed the following errors:

-01117-Engine preheating - 27-10-Implausible signal - Intermittent.
-00625- Glow plug preheating indicator light (K29) 27-10- Implausible signal - Intermittent.

"However, I should mention that I removed the steering wheel a week ago – perhaps that cleared some errors! But in the meantime, I've been having some really terrible cold starts (3-5 attempts with a lot of smoke). It's also above freezing again; last week when it was -13 degrees Celsius, it started right up after just one glow plug cycle!"

Here are the results with the engine running (basic settings - 04):

-004: Start of injection (injection start): specified start at 17.4° (???), currently around 3.5°.
Cold Start Valve: 75%

I have set the trigger point statically and not dynamically (0.7 mm travel).

-001: Injection Quantity: 1.4 mg/R. Model: Piston Displacement: 1.300 V.

-003: MAF: 462.2 mg/R (->Non-smoker vehicle ), EGR duty cycle: 4.7%.

-008: Injection quantity: 1.2 mg/vial; Injection quantity: 28.2 mg/vial; Injection quantity: 22.8 mg/vial.

The following errors surprisingly occurred during the measurements:

-00550-Catalyst Over Temperature 17-10-Regulation Difference - Intermittent.

-65535- Unknown Error Code 00-00

After clearing the error memory, nothing new was recorded!

Here's what Dennis and I also found:

- The exhaust smells very bad (the engine was at operating temperature!).
- The idle speed is reached slowly and hesitantly (decreasing from approximately 1200 to 900 RPM over about 4-5 seconds).
With a few attempts (brief acceleration), I was able to reproduce this "whirring" sound at idle, and during that time, the connection between the PC and the control unit was lost -> all entries turned red with an error!!!! Re-logging immediately eliminated the "whirring" . We were able to reproduce this multiple times!
- The actuator diagnosis indicated that the fuel injector control valve was functioning correctly.


Okay, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the fuel injection quantity is too rich! This is suggested by the enormous power and the smell (possibly due to the amount of fuel being injected?). Consequently, the catalytic converter is likely damaged (due to unburned diesel), which could explain the smell – possibly caused by aromatic hydrocarbons or faulty injectors. However, a temperature sensor on the catalytic converter leading to an error entry would be new information to me!
Do I need to worry about the crankshaft pulley?

What do the experts say? Thank you in advance!


Best regards, Christian.

Hi Christian,

For now, only one thing comes to mind for a well-informed comment:

haehnlein wrote:

-001: Injection Quantity 1.4 mg/R Mod. Piston Displacement: 1.300 V

This suggests that the pump setting is too high – perhaps someone tried a "shift knob tuning" modification at some point.
Therefore, the "wrum wrum" sound could also be caused by regulation problems in the idle range, and various jerking sensations could occur in the partial load range --> error database: DIY solutions for reducing jerking.

The catalyst temperature error is completely baffling to me; the 1Z, as far as I know, doesn't have such monitoring. Could there be some confusion with other error codes?

Sometimes, you find some real nonsense in there if relay 109 is acting up...

ulf wrote:

This suggests that the pump setting is too high – perhaps someone tried a "shift knob tuning" modification at some point. Daher kann auch das wrum wrum kommen --> Regelprobleme im Leerlaufbereich, und diverse Ruckelerscheinungen im Teillastbereich --> Fehlerdatenbank: DIY-Ruckelabhilfe.

Hi Ulf,

The problem seems to be finally solved! Now I need to consider whether I dare to move the turnout mechanism. You definitely need this special key to loosen the triangular screw.
However, I still don't understand how the white smoke is produced (especially at temperatures between -1 and 0°C or after a standing time of 2-4 hours), and why a longer preheating period reduces it to a normal level.
But it's likely that too much fuel cannot be completely burned, which can lead to large amounts of unburned diesel (resulting in white smoke) when the engine is cold, and large amounts of hydrocarbons (causing a foul odor) when the engine is warm, which the catalytic converter cannot oxidize.

ulf wrote:

The catalyst temperature error is completely baffling to me; the 1Z, as far as I know, doesn't have such monitoring. Could there be some error codes mixed up?

Perhaps the engine control unit interprets the high fuel injection volume as a potential hazard for the catalytic converter (although I can't imagine that being the case). At least, there is no temperature sensor located anywhere on the exhaust system!

Best regards, Christian.

haehnlein wrote:

-01117-Engine preheating - 27-10-Implausible signal - Intermittent. -00625- Glow plug preheating indicator light (K29) 27-10- Implausible signal - Intermittent. -00550-Catalyst Over Temperature 17-10-Regulation Difference - Intermittent. -65535- Unknown Error Code 00-00

Hi Christian,

The error codes seem to have been shifted somehow.

Normally means...
01117 = Generator signal (terminal DF).
00625 = Speed signal.
00550 = Injection start control.
65535 = Engine control unit (ECU) failure.

Hi Ulf,

ulf wrote:

01117 = Generator signal (terminal DF).

Well, maybe carbon brushes... whatever.

ulf wrote:

00625 = Speed signal

it doesn't matter.

ulf wrote:

00550 = Injection start control

Hmm... the injection molding machine?

ulf wrote:

65535 = Engine computer failure

expensive, or maybe on eBay.de... but perhaps it had something to do with the connection issues I was experiencing earlier?

I think I can slowly start looking for a used electric scooter. While I mostly prefer to "ignore" things... but riding around the area might not be so great .

BUT THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE EFFORT YOU ARE PUTTING IN!!!!!!!

Best regards, Christian.