Kamelreitsyndrom: 1Z Engine, 3500 RPM, Tuning

First of all, hello everyone.
I'm new here and have already read quite a bit in other posts about the problem you mentioned. I installed an auxiliary control unit from Authal that allows you to switch between 90 and 115 horsepower. Unfortunately, neither VW, Bosch, nor an independent workshop could help me, as the VAG diagnostic tool only showed one error code for all of them: 'Fuel temperature sensor for ESP.' At Bosch, the ESP was active, but they couldn't find anything unusual. The only drawback of this error is that the diesel...
'It's always measured with a temperature of approximately 5°C. Is there anyone in your forum who could help me? I'm from the Chemnitz/Dresden area. I would be grateful for any advice or assistance, and if there's someone nearby, I'd be happy to come by with my car. Of course, this wouldn't be for free. Here are the things that have already been replaced to try and fix the problem: The mass airflow sensor (MAF) has been replaced 4 times. The turbocharger was also replaced under the warranty. The diesel filter is new.'
The air filter is new. As far as I can tell, all the vacuum hoses are also okay and leak-free, with no cracks or disconnections. The problem occurs both with the tuning module enabled and disabled. At full load, there is absolutely no soot, which could suggest a problem with the EGR or the EPW (Exhaust Pressure Wave). That's all I can say for now. I would be very grateful if someone could help me. Best regards, Heiko2.

Hi,

You wrote a lot, but you didn't explain what the problem is.

What do you mean by "camel"?

A constant temperature of 5 degrees Celsius suggests that something inside the box has changed.

How many degrees are there when the box is removed?

However, I believe that a downward change seems counterintuitive in the context of tuning.

Throw the box away and test everything again. If it works fine then, you'll know that the box was the problem.

m;

BTW: An Authal Box is NOT chip tuning, it's a control module.

That's a significant difference, and it's one of the reasons for your problems.

If the device is incorrectly connected, an error like "5 degrees diesel" can occur.
Chip tuning cannot be "connected incorrectly."

m;

Hallo 'dieselmartin' und alle anderen. Das 'Kamelreitsyndrom' wird gleich nachdem man sich registriert und eingeloggt, unter häufige Probleme bei TDI behandelt. That means...
Starting at approximately 3500 RPM, especially under full load, such as when overtaking on a hill or accelerating on the highway to reach top speed, this specific issue causes an intermittent power loss. It feels like hitting the rev limiter on a gasoline engine, creating a noticeable drop in power. This happens at intervals.
'Approximately 2 seconds. Sometimes with the increased performance of the power box, and sometimes with the normal factory settings, as in the limp-home mode. I've also tried disconnecting the power box completely and reconnecting the normal VGA connector to the ESP, so that the power box is completely out of operation. Even in this case, the same problem occurs. At the VW workshop, test drives were conducted both with and without the power box connected, using a VGA diagnostic device. Both times, even after clearing the error code, this problem reappeared. Unfortunately, it occurs especially with gentle driving, up to approximately 3000 RPM.'
'There were no problems or error codes, either with or without the connected power box. When the power box was connected and turned on, a noticeable increase in power was felt, especially when going uphill. With the power box off, the engine produced its standard 90 horsepower from approximately 2000 RPM, which is when the turbo typically kicks in. Engaging the power box then provided an immediate and significant boost of power to the crankshaft. As mentioned, this works well up to around 3500 RPM. Beyond that, a noticeable drop in power was felt, and the diagnostic tool immediately displayed the error code for the fuel temperature sensor for the ESP system. Therefore, simply disconnecting the power box is not a solution. This problem also exists in the normal, stock configuration. Someone suggested today that the timing belt might have jumped a tooth. However, in my opinion, if that were the case, the engine would never produce proper power at low RPM or idle, and the idle would also be unstable. I'm very interested in knowing what components and systems are activated around 3500 RPM to achieve both the normal and the increased power output. For example, with the power box connected and on, the car's top speed is limited to approximately 180 km/h, which is the same as the normal stock value. Previously, before the problem started, the top speed was around 210 km/h. Also, there is no noticeable black smoke under full load, which would indicate a problem with the EGR system. Okay, I've written too much again. I hope for your tips and remain with kind regards. Heiko2.'

Hi,

According to your explanation, there is therefore also a connection between the error memory entry of the KTF sensor and the jerking.
Because I understood you to mean that the camel riding activity only starts after the KTF error has also been entered.
A faulty KTF sensor leads to the default value of -5°C for the KTF, which is correct. However, there are no other compensating reactions.

Given that this error message and your problems seem to be related, I would suspect a defect in the quantity setting mechanism or the wiring/pinning. (Of course, assuming everything is okay with the air pressure panel.)

OK.

Let's start from the very beginning.

Which car?
Which engine (engine code)?
I think it's a standard manual transmission.

Does the static injection start - measurement group 000 - align with expectations?
If so, then the talk about the timing belt is likely misleading.

Okay, let's do a "ride" _without_ the enclosure and log groups 003, 008, and 011.

"With the measurement data, we can quickly assist you. Without it, all I can say is: 'something is not right.'"

Greetings.
martin

Hello. It's me again. So, it's a Seat Toledo 1L, manufactured in December 1996.
With MKB 1Z engine and standard manual transmission. I will take care of the measurement data groups as soon as possible. As soon as I have the measurement data, I will get back to you.
It would be really great if someone could help me here, because the workshops in that...
I already was, and I had absolutely no idea about this problem. They initially wanted to...
Today at VW, I'm having a new control unit installed. This 'might possibly' solve the problem.
First, they take your money, and then, if it doesn't work out, they leave you high and dry.
'I'm standing by. First of all, thank you for your help. Best regards, Heiko2.'

12/96 and 1Z ???

Are you sure about that? Or are you simply assuming that because it has 90 horsepower, it must be a 1Z engine?

In the Golf models produced from 12/96 onwards, the 1Z engine was no longer available; instead, the AHU engine was used.

m;

Hello. The 1Z engine was still used in the Seat Toledo. The first registration date is...
'dated 12/1996,' which may not mean that the manufacturing date is also 12/1996.
If the pile of material has been standing there, it could easily have been there since the beginning of 1996.
Based on the document number, this should be identifiable. This should be evident in all invoices that include...
This troubleshooting information is related to engine type 1Z.
Using the manufacturer and model identification numbers, it's also possible to determine which vehicle it is. An accident report from the end of last year also mentions it.
Engine type: 1Z installed. How can I be 100% certain that it is actually a 1Z?
Thank you in advance. Heiko2.

Looking at it

- It's in the service manual.
- It's indicated on the type label in the trunk.
- It's usually found on the engine (often as a sticker on the timing belt cover, and sometimes including the engine number).

m;

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"da"

Heiko2 wrote:

With the powerbox connected and turned on, a noticeable increase in power was felt, especially when going uphill. By turning off the powerbox, the vehicle, with its standard 90 horsepower, would start to feel the power increase around 2000 RPM, which is approximately when the turbo kicks in. Activating the powerbox then provided an immediate and significant boost of power to the crankshaft. As mentioned, this works well until reaching approximately 3500 RPM. Then, a noticeable drop in power was felt, and the diagnostic device immediately displayed the aforementioned error code for the fuel temperature sensor ESP. Therefore, simply disconnecting the powerbox is not enough. The problem also exists in the normal, standard configuration.

Hi,

Have you considered that the error codes (diesel temperature sensor) cannot be cleared by simply turning off the engine or removing the control unit?

To truly eliminate the box, one must...
1. Expand the box.
2. Delete error entries with the diagnostic device using.
3. Test drive until the error usually occurs.
4. Read error codes.

Otherwise, you might be reading outdated error messages related to the device, even though it has already been removed!

Hello. Ulf, thank you for your tip. I had already completely disconnected the box by unplugging the connector on the left side of the ESP from the box and reconnecting the normal serial connector. This means the box is completely out of operation.
The error code reading was performed precisely during the test drive, not just when the car was stationary. Up to the specified 3500 RPM, the diagnostic device could not detect any errors. Only when the 3500 RPM was reached and the 'camel riding' (likely referring to a specific driving behavior) resumed, did an error code appear. According to the workshop, the error is related to the fuel temperature sensor. I, too, find it puzzling why this particular error occurs.
All things considered, this part really has nothing to do with the whole thing.
In the morning, immediately after starting the engine cold, this error doesn't occur, strangely enough. It only appears when the car has warmed up and reaches the specified 3500 RPM. As I said, I will have the error codes read as soon as possible and let you know the results. One more thing: According to the workshop, the 'statistical injection start' reading is group 000. So, for now, I can set aside the suspicion about the timing belt. I called them again last night. The workshop foreman told me that if that were the case, there would definitely be at least one error code entry visible. Let's see. Best regards, Heiko2.

[Translating...]

wenn der Dieseltenmpgeber nen wackler hat, der erst bei gewissen Temp auftritt, dann wird er auch zum Reiten fuehren.

Denn dann spinnt die Massenkorrektur.

Aber ich lese immer "hat die Werkstatt" gesagt, und nie wirkliche Messwerte.

Was sagt der Spritzbeginn ?
Da muessen jetzt 2 Zahlen kommen, z.B. bei Temp 145 und Spirtzbeginn 44.

Quote:

Zum statistischen Einspritzbeginn, steht laut Werkstatt, Messgruppe 000

Das verstehe ich nicht....

m;

[Translating...]

Heiko2 wrote:

Also kann ich die Vermutung mit den Zahnriemen, erst einmal beiseite legen. Ich habe gestern abend nocheinmal dort angerufen. Wenn dies nicht der Fall gewesen wäre, sagte mir der Werkstattmeister, dann wäre schon hier zumindestens ein Fehlercode-Eintrag ersichtlich.

Typisch:

/viewtopic.php?t=3285 wrote:

. . .Ein großer Teil der Schrauber-Neulinge und leider auch der Markenwerkstätten(!) vertraut angesichts dieser verwirrenden HighTech ausschließlich auf den Fehlerspeicher, "denn in einem Fehlerspeicher werden ja alle Fehler gespeichert, weil das schon der Name sagt!" Dabei wird übersehen, daß die Elektronik gemäß ihrer Programmierung teilweise mit völlig anderen Fehler-Definitionen arbeitet, als der normale Sprachgebrauch. Beispiel: Beim Beschleunigen ist 20 km/h vor der normalen Vmax Schluß? Für den Fahrer ganz klar ein Fehler (Leistungsmangel), aber die Elektronik schert sich nicht um die Vmax, weil sie nicht erkennen kann, ob gerade strammer Gegenwind herrscht, oder es bergauf geht. Daher werden Hoffnungen auf eine idiotensichere Diagnose per Fehlerspeicher meistens durch die Praxis jäh zerstört, da der Speicher durch gähnende Leere glänzt oder scheinbar unsinnige Einträge enthält . . .

Bezogen auf den evtl. übergesprungenen ZR: Wenn die Spritzbeginnregelung die Soll-Ist-Abweichung noch innerhalb der definierten Fehlergrenzen halten kann, steht nix im Speicher!

[Translating...]Ulf,

wie schon öfter hier berichtet wurde: Ein übersprungener Zahn und dann geht nichts mehr... sei denn du verdrehst die ESP dermaßen, daß er wieder einigermaßen läuft. Dann hat er aber wahrscheinlich Leistungsverlust, weil die Ventilsteuerzeiten nicht unbedingt passen.