Longlife III

Hello!

Nowadays, the new Longlife III oil with a viscosity of 5W-30 is available for most VAG engines. It replaces all existing standards for gasoline engines (50400) and diesel engines (50700).

For vehicles equipped with DPF filters, it is mandatory.

Now that I've heard from my dealer that they no longer use Longlife II oil (0W-30), but only Longlife III exclusively, I'm wondering, as an AWX driver without a DPF, whether I should switch as well.

My oil consumption with LL2 0W-30 is now very low at 55,000 km. With 5W-30, I expect to maintain consistently low oil consumption even with higher mileage.

What do you think about it?

Don't bother explaining! The only reason for LL III is that it's supposed to burn with less ash. This allows the DPF to last for approximately 180,000 km.

This oil ash cannot be burned again and regenerates, and therefore clogs the filter.

LL III - Oil is supposed to slow that down.

Your dealer is likely saving on storage costs and other expenses in this way. And 95% of customers end up paying whatever the dealer puts in there.

Regards,

Manuel.

Could you please write down what the abbreviation DPF stands for?

Thank you.

Do you know the search function here on the forum?

Diesel_wallet_fiscal_transfer = Diesel particulate filter. This great invention increases fuel consumption, is thrown away after 180,000 km and must be repurchased, while only reducing the fine particulate emissions of all involved polluters (simple street dirt like dog feces, sand, soil, pollen, industry, diesel and gasoline cars with brake pads and tires) by ridiculous single-digit percentages.
Hopefully, someone hasn't already calculated the CO2 emissions and other emissions associated with the entire lifecycle (manufacturing, recycling, and disposal) of these fancy devices.

Some Green party politicians seem to have become so rigid in their thinking that it's just stale and dusty. Since I, like probably 99% of the population, am in favor of a better quality of life, I primarily suggest the long-term storage of these "concrete heads," for example, in Gorleben or somewhere similar.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hi,

LL-III oil is beneficial, not just for drivers with diesel particulate filters (DPF). The HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) value of LL-II oils does not meet the ACEA B3 specification but rather the B1 specification, and is therefore below 3.5. (In fact, I haven't seen any LL-II oil with an HTHS value above 3.0). VW has apparently realized that such a low HTHS value carries a risk of increased engine wear (especially for drivers who frequently use the highway). Therefore, LL-III oils have a higher HTHS value of at least 3.5, corresponding to the ACEA B3 specification. In addition, there is an LL-III oil that has a significantly higher viscosity index and a noticeably higher high-temperature viscosity than all the LL-II oils I am familiar with.
Thanks to LL-III, I can now refill my engine with an oil that offers good wear protection and is also LL-III compatible.

I can only strongly advise everyone to switch to LL-III whenever possible.

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"

Okay, so B1 only specifies that the HTHS value must be between 2.9 and 3.5 mPa*s. For viscosity class B3, the value should be greater than 3.5 mPa*s.

For B1 engines, the design consistently prioritizes fuel economy. For B3 engines, the focus is on reducing evaporative emissions, maintaining viscosity stability, minimizing wear, ensuring cleanliness, preventing oil thickening, and reducing oil consumption.

To me, it sounds more like a concession from the VAG group that they can't 'keep' the 0W-30 oil in the engine for a longer period. Because it's so thin, some of it will be burned, which leads to increased soot buildup. Therefore, switching from 0W to 5W will help ensure that more oil remains within the lubrication system.

Hi,

Quote:

...Therefore, 0W->5W, so that more of it remains in the oil circulation system...

I don't believe that a significant amount of oil is burned at low temperatures, whether it's 0W or 5W oil. Both are 30-grade oils, meaning they have the same viscosity class at 100°C. (At 100°C, both have the same viscosity.) In fact, some LL-III oils have a lower high-temperature viscosity than LL-II oils.
At first glance, it seems better to choose a 0W-30 oil over a 5W-30 based on viscosity. However, upon examining the technical data sheet, it becomes apparent that there are LL-III compliant oils that have a higher viscosity index and a higher high-temperature viscosity than LL-II oils. Another advantage (as mentioned before): With LL-III, the HTHS value is back to a normal level.

Whatever. For a diesel engine, up to 50,000 km is a really long interval for motor oil. I've been considering having my diesel reprogrammed to use fixed intervals and using good quality oil that meets the 505 01 specification. When the 507 00 oil came out, I decided to schedule an extra (self-performed) oil change between the regular service intervals. (This wouldn't affect my warranty claims, as long as I used oil that was approved for the vehicle.)

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"

Well, do you happen to have any data sheets for Longlife III oils?

The oil analysis for me and other drivers using long-life oil showed good results with LL-II, although the silicon and iron content was quite high, which was probably due to it being the first oil fill from the factory. However, the oil was still far from reaching its performance limit.

If I assume that you drive approximately 30,000 km using the long-life oil and then perform an additional oil change 'in between,' then, according to your reasoning, you could actually skip the long-life oil and just use regular 5W-40.

Hi,

Yes, I can provide datasheets. What exactly do you want to know?

Regarding the additional oil change: I purchased an extended warranty for the 3rd and 4th years. The first year is now coming to an end. A condition of the warranty is that I have the inspections and other maintenance work done at a VW dealership. Anything that needs to be done between inspections must be performed according to VW's specifications. So, I have 3 options:

1.) Switch to fixed interval oil changes and use oil that meets the MB 505 01 specification. Disadvantage: Requires an annual visit to the mechanic, which incurs associated costs.

2.) LL (likely meaning "long-term") and a maximum of 2 years to VW (Volkswagen). Disadvantage: The oil is old and bad.

3.) I'm now scheduling a private oil change (after one year). The downside is an additional cost of €50 for the oil, oil filter, and seals. The advantage is that the warranty remains valid because the workshop has recorded the "long-life" (LL) service interval in the service booklet, and the car only receives long-life oil. And: Since the last oil change, I've been using the better oil that meets the VW 507 00 specification.

Regarding your oil analysis: Could you please provide it to me? I would like to review it carefully. How does the oil analysis look for LL-II oil if it's not the initial fill? Do you have any information about that?

Generally speaking: 30-grade oils become quite thin at high speeds on the highway. If the HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) viscosity is also low, then the wear protection may not be particularly good. I would prefer it if there was a 40-grade oil that is approved according to the 507 00 standard.

You're right: If I were actually to change the oil every year, then it would be more sensible (financially and also for the engine) to switch to a fixed interval. I'm only concerned about getting this one oil change done, so that the 506 01 oil is replaced with the slightly better 507 00 oil. (I think I may have expressed myself unclearly on this point before).


Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"

Yes, I can provide datasheets. What exactly do you want to know?


Okay, could you provide some evidence to support your claim that 506.01 oil is 'bad.' In principle, a low HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) value doesn't necessarily indicate that the oil is of low quality or offers poor wear protection. I purchased a 506.01 oil from a bottling company in Würzburg, which meets the ACEA A5/B5 standard. There's really nothing better than this.

Castrol Longlife III:


Loglife II Castrol:


Here is my http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_switzerland/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/s/slx_longlifeIII.pdfoil analysishttp://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_switzerland/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/s/slx_longlifeII_switzerland.pdf from www.wearcheck.de.

Hi Julian,

Quote:

I purchased a 50601 oil from a bottling company in Würzburg, which meets the ACEA A5/B5 standard. There's really nothing better than this.

The key point is this: The B5 standard (we're talking about oils for diesel engines here, so I'm leaving the A standards out, even though similar principles apply) was introduced after the B4 standard, but it's not a "higher" standard in terms of quality (and for me, what matters is wear protection, not fuel economy). B5 means: HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) value below 3.5 (typically, these oils have an HTHS value of approximately 3.0), with other properties similar to B4.

Quote:

...In principle, a low HTHS value does not necessarily indicate that the oil is of low quality or lacks wear protection...

When it comes to wear protection at high temperatures (e.g., a long highway drive at high speed), the HTHS value is the key indicator. It describes how stable the oil is under shear stress. Undoubtedly, the HTHS value doesn't tell the whole story: It's often better to use a good base oil with a slightly lower HTHS value than to heavily modify a poor base oil to achieve a usable HTHS value.

I can't understand why the two Castrol oils are supposedly so good. I've already mentioned the low HTHS value of the Castrol LL-II oil. As for the LL-III oil, the statement "HTHS >= 3.5" is surprising. Castrol should know the properties of the oil they are selling. Furthermore, according to your data sheet, the oil is only approved for use with the 507 00 and 504 00 specifications.
Other LL-III oils are also approved for use according to ACEA standards A3/B4 and C3. The viscosity index is higher, the high-temperature viscosity is higher, and the HTHS value is precisely specified .

As I said: ACEA A5/B5 is important for people who want to save €20 on fuel costs every 70,000 km, and then would rather pay €4,000 for a new engine. (That was expressed harshly, but not meant that way. )

Can you tell me which oil you sent for analysis?


Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"

What is the HTHS value after the B4 inspection?

I only found files from Castrol that were actually usable; I did not provide a rating. I don't really care about the brand.

I was hoping to get further input from you!

I had the oil from my engine analyzed during the first scheduled oil change. I obviously don't know what was filled in there from the factory. After all, it says 'Factory filling' in big letters.
The oil was topped up for the entire distance with 1 liter of Veedol-VW-Audi Longlife2, which my dealer gave me as a gift when I took delivery of the vehicle.

I don't understand you. You're always talking about your interim oil changes. That's not the point of the long-life concept.

And with 15,000 km driven per year, longlife oil isn't really worth it.

If you don't have a long-life service interval, you need to change the oil every 15,000 km or 1 year, and have a general inspection every 30,000 km or 2 years.

An oil change service costs €30 at the dealership, and a standard inspection costs €90 for labor.

You can bring the cheaper oil, which will save you even more money, and your warranty claims will still be valid!

And I'm not even talking about the good feeling of driving with a more temperature-resistant (40-grade) motor oil.

Regards,

Manuel.

Hi Julian,

Quote:

What is the HTHS value after B4?

The standard states: >3.5.
What are you getting at? An oil does not automatically meet the B4 standard simply because the HTHS value is above 3.5, but your question likely aimed at something else, which I am not currently understanding .

Quote:

I was hoping to get further input from you!

You can have it (if I'm able to provide it). However, I need to know exactly what kind of input you're looking for. The schnitzel that's right here in front of me, you definitely aren't getting .
Are you looking for datasheets for LL-III? Damn: I just deleted the datasheets recently, after I ordered my oil...

Quote:

I couldn't find any information about the Fuchs TITAN GT1 Longlife oil. *Speculation:* It might be identical to the Shell Helix Ultra VX. *Speculation ends.*

As far as I know, the Aral SuperTronic Longlife III is identical to the BP Visco 7000 Longlife III, which in turn is the same as the Castrol/Veedol product you mentioned.

That just leaves Vapsoil 50700: I have absolutely no idea what that is...

http://www.mobil.com/Germany-German/Lubes/PDS/GLXXDEPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp...what my dealer gave me as a gift during the vehicle handover...http://www3.shell.no/op/smidler/prodhbok/HelixUltraVX.htm

Lool. Did he give that to you with some foresight? The friendly ones are sometimes really friendly. Considering what they want for a liter of LL... are they still around €22 per liter? I'm only paying 6.50 per liter for the LL-III fuel.

Speaking of schnitzel: My wine is getting warm...

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Micha"

Okay then...

So, B4 specification simply indicates that the oil must meet a higher requirement regarding piston cleanliness in direct injection diesel engines compared to B2. HTHS remains the same (>3.5 mPa*s).

B5 states that the HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) viscosity should be 3.5 mPa*s.

Your linked oils have a high-temperature/high-shear (HTHS) value that is just barely above 3.5 (i.e., 3.5, so I'm not really seeing the benefits regarding HTHS. Primarily, LL-III oils that meet B3/B4 standards may contain lower-quality base oils compared to those that meet B5 standards. *confused*

I still need your evidence/explanation that a low HTHS value increases internal engine wear. I haven't found anything really informative about it in the literature either. *pondering*

@Merchants:
Well, I was very interested in the oil during the vehicle handover, and if you're spending that much money on a car, you should expect a liter of oil to cost around 25 euros. Unfortunately, he only gave me the oil after 50600 miles... *nargl* ...an ignorant person would have put it in their PD.

@Oil source:
Please tell me your preferred source for LL-III oil, feel free to send it to me via private message!

@Schnitzel:
At 5:38 PM, already having schnitzel and wine... RESPECT!